Site Navigation

David Kaminski and Peter Kaminski, 2026-04-15, Audio Transcript

AI generated in dialogue with humans. Not fully reviewed.

Converted from Zoom transcript. Timestamps indicate approximate time in the recording. Paragraph breaks inserted at pauses of 3+ seconds.

Dave Kaminski (00:00:00): essay for the New York… Hi, recording in progress. So, I have a friend who, is an excellent writer, and she's written stuff for, like, you know, an opinion piece or whatever for the New York Times. And I think that this is, like, it's, like, timely, really. I mean, this is, like, really stuff that people should know, right? So, the quick version is that, once I started using ChatGPT, I started, kind of being more polite, and talking like ChatGPT in a very kind of sequential, polite way that can help to consolidate, into paragraphs a lot of what I was, thinking. And, Right now, I'm actually buoyed up by, some liquid and Coca-Cola. I think I was dehydrated 2 pints, so if I have to jump and go to the bathroom, they'll, like, say, like, oh, okay, it finally hit. And the caffeine and the water is helping my brain a little bit. Anyway, side note. So, anyway, so, anyway, Julie mentioned that to me, and I thought that was amusing. And, and then I noticed that it started to be introduced into my emails a little bit, so I started channeling that a little bit when I was writing people. I was like, okay, I'm gonna kind of smooth this out a little bit, took the time, and, you know, chat, can you do it this way, and kind of, like, just… you know, ease into it, like, you know, this is a paragraph, there's a paragraph, go back and re-read it, kind of make sure it works, right? It was very harmless, and everyone would say that. I reached the zenith of that in the last, week. where, I was doing code. for 5 days straight, which was, like, put me right on the edge of that manic, thing that's in. I did, like, 11 days straight. And then I ended up in the hospital, like, wandering around in the daylight, like, and then the other ones picked me up. Well, so I was 5 days into that kind of behavior, but, you know, properly medicated, right? And aware of myself. But I was, like, going faster and faster and faster and faster, but good news, I was sleeping, but I was dreaming about code in my sleep, and it started to kind of get introduced a little bit. And… The last morning that, I think I woke up. I basically… oh, I'm sorry, I… so I got shorted on sleep. I woke up after, like. six… five hours… I think it was five hours, or four and a half hours, or five hours. I got out of bed, I was like, my brain was just on, right? And also, I have this whole thing now where my left brain is awake, my right eye can open, but my right brain is asleep, and my left eye is asleep. So, the clod has been, waking up this side of my brain, which is really wild, right? That you can actually see that physically. That's, like, one thing. And then, And then for those several days, I was, like, talking really fast, I, like, had access to all my mind and all my vocabulary and stuff that I'd never said or been able to say before, and also to karate kick in these kind of very short ways, like, that's wrong thinking, let me redirect you. And I was even using, like, computer stuff, right? And I was just, like, brilliant on all these, like, short topics. That's the wrong question, you know, that kind of stuff. So I was working with some people, talking to people at work. And then, anyway, so anyway, this morning, that one morning that I woke up very early, I cleaned the kitchen, I did everything that was a blocking move, let's call it that, I forgot what the proper word is in quad now, but it wasn't working for Julie, so I basically, I cleaned the kitchen, I did this, ideally, like, like… hours of chores, because, like, 4 in the morning. And then I sat down with a sheet of paper, which I'm gonna photograph, I'm gonna send to you. And I decided to kind of speak gently to Julie about our relation… not our relationship, but the house. So, you know, it was like. it was, like, kind of Claude talk, something like, you know, like goes with like. Period. You know, disorder equals, poor structure. Poor structure equals failure. So I was writing it out in kind of fake code, and then I had, like, arrows, and then, you know, arrow back up, and, like, arrow down. So I wrote, like, a pair… like, a couple paragraphs. And… and I showed it to her, and she wanted to make sure, she's like, oh my god, you know, what time do you wake up? You know? And she's like, have you been doing Claude? Like, she's, like, worried. I was, like, off the edge. I was like, it's all fine, everything's fine. I just wrote some notes, because I want you to kind of, like… it's… yeah, it's… it is about Claude, but it's kind of been helping me think, and I want to share that with you, and, like, you know, I want to kind of talk to you and help you, because, like, Claude is actually helping me understand people. Because Claude is like a person, and he's like, terribly failed. And after spending $300 and 5 days working with Claude, I know what can't be fixed in people now, but I also know how people can fix, and why they can't be fixed, and, you know, it's like… and it's like, do the 25 variations of that, which you know I'm talking about. I'm not gonna try and fill it with words for you. So, that was one kind of, like, giant thing that I thought deserved on its own. The, the essay, and then I got to… I think I… I'm… maybe I should not name this person, but let's just say one of the very smartest people I know, who's a technology person and also a mineral person, you may have heard his name. He was super into technology, super into minerals, super everything. So, he and I have been doing, like… I think we did emails yesterday, and we got… we got somewhere, and then we did, an email today about something, and then he got into this, like, really, like. he starts shouting at me in caps. Like, he shouted at me the day before, and I said to my friend, I'm like, I just want you to witness the fact that this guy's, you know, back on everyone's ass again, and I'm getting frustrated, because this other person has problems, too. He's bright, and he's affable, but then he becomes, like, an asshole on email. So, we got on this thing that got worse and worse and worse and worse, and finally, like, he all caps me on some stuff, and like, don't do this, you can't blah blah blah. But I think what he forgot is that he hit reply all. And so, the EHD, 75-year-old, Worldwide respected guy is on the… receiving end of this, so he's a witness to this problem all of a sudden, right? Which was actually my solution, which is this grand solution, and then became, like, this angry email response. Dave, you can't this, Dave, you can't that. So, I'm… I think I'm looking at this. And I didn't even think about Claude. It became that seamless. I've become so… synthetic. I just sat down. I think what you're saying is… Oh, no, I'm sorry. What I'm hearing is… and then wrote the most polite email ever. It went on for, like, 500 words. You know, just, like, paragraph, sentence, paragraph, sentence, paragraph, sentence, and I wove in some other details from the previous email. It's like, as we discussed in several other emails, this, and… I would something, something, something. It was like, it brought in all this other stuff, and I thought it was, like, a way to say, kind of fuck you for being rude to me. And by the way, I'm not taking up your time, because this is really valuable stuff. I'm not taking up… I'm not gonna shout it back at you, but I'm showing you how you should write a polite email to people, and how you should have thanked me. And I wrote the whole thing in his voice. Which was even weirder, right? And then I signed it with his name. Good luck. So, I get this email back that says. I would… I am not going to communicate with you anymore. I am not sending you any more emails. I feel that you have… entered… you have entered the contacts, our contacts, meaning… and then he went… he would reply all, he doubled down, because I didn't think he knew at this time, but then he realized it was a rip pile, and so he's like, our contact, Seth, and our this, meaning I know that you're listening back there, right? And I… I refuse to speak to you now that you have put… put all my… all my… all my personal emails and all of my… private information, my confidential information, through a language model, and have now, created, I always said, I think this is an AI response at the top, right? And he said, I basically refused to speak to you. Please let me know when you figure that… when you've solved this problem, you know? Very brief, and just like this, like bullet points. So I wrote no back. I said, I wrote the entire thing with my… with an iPhone finger. And then I wrote some paragraphs that were some light, and then some that were deeply personal, and a little bit about how Claude had, you know, influenced me, and about some of them about my problems and my struggles, and… sort of medical issues, and, you know, how I'm, like, doing good work despite that, and whatever. This whole, like, long story that was clearly that… that I created, right? But also, like, hey, and then also, look. And then towards the end, it was, like. You know, you know, I work really hard for people, and really hard for organizations, but when the happiness goes away. Not so much. And so I said, the happiness is… so I said, what did I say? The, it is a hot season, it is… it is now a hot season, and the well is running dry. Right, at the end. And actually, earlier, above that, I said, I would like to… please get some rest, and then I want you to apologize in an email, and I want you to apologize in person, and I think we should sit down with a group of people and sort all this stuff out, because it's not working for us. And we… We fired all the people that were rude, and we got rid of all the people who were in trouble, some of them at least, and we were… we thought we were quote-unquote better than them. Right? So, anyway, that's my kind of closing response. But it's super funny to me that now polite… a polite response becomes a clawed response.

Pete Kaminski (00:09:47): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (00:09:47): And, and now people have become so paranoid, they… They question… and it was kind of like a tongue-in-cheek, or kind of like an ironic response, but it was super polite, but that people can't parse If that's the right word, can't… sort out. The, language from no language. And now it's, imbued, is that the right word? I'm like, the caffeine might be working a little bit. A sense of distrust even among the most highly educated. And the most sincere, and the people who should know me best. And, as opposed to a question mark, it's like, hey, is this ironic? Is this AI? What's happening here? Are you trying to teach me a lesson in politeness? Like, that would have been maybe the right thing to do, but instead it became, like, a double, double, double, double down kind of situation, and I…

Pete Kaminski (00:10:45): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (00:10:45): I don't know, I think that maybe in your journey, you should start asking people to share stories with you about their AI, and then maybe you can kind of craft it into a more generic essay. About, you know, the human interface. And, you know, I, you know, like, for example, I have clogged… Creating, captions for my… Internet Archive stuff that it just loaded. And it did that, but it did it kind of silently, and it put it in the bottom footer. And I'm like, Claude, I think we need to be a little more honest here, and like, she looked it up top, top, and then… I said, kind of wrote it in, like, it's all like this, and I put it in brackets first, then it changed, then put it in italics, and did some other… it was perfect. But I said, we need to be, like, perfectly transparent, because it was identifying a postcard from 1913, and… that was in reverse… reversed handwriting as Palmer Method, and I'm like, oh my god, he's not English, it's backwards writing. The smooth arm movement. I'm like, fuck, but it's like, it's fine. But Claude at least has tagged it, right, as public stuff. So. Anyway, I think that… I don't know if there's anyone gathering all this stuff the way, say, like, that, Keith Houston is collecting all his emoji stories. But, I think you could have, like, a lot of, like, little zingers in there, and you could, you know, maybe with these kinds of conversations, compile them into a set, and then maybe just check in with a guy like me and say, hey, look, I just don't want to make my shirt, I don't want to blow your cover, you know? But I'd be happy to give up my, my, my, my photo of the, of the, of the house chores, and show you that. And then also, I talked to Julie about it, and it's been helping her and her anxiety. I realize… I realize now what her anxiety is, how to solve it. How to… yeah, basically, let's keep it with that, super simple. And so, I've been trying to reward her with small things the way that I know that's gonna work now, which I didn't know before. And then, the other day, she just did this… yesterday, she did this really great errand. We argued about purse, but then I told her to put it together. I said, you have to include a meal for me. Because I was, like, 3 hours of Uber driver, but with no fucking meal, and, you know, she wanted me to eat at, like, 8 o'clock at night when I'm going to bed. Anyway, she had a really clean, a really clean trip, and I said, I think you have pre-visualized this entire thing, I think you've seen the entire thing in your mind, and you've done it. Out ahead of time. Because I went through, like, the drive-thru at the, at the, at the, at the Walgreens, the… the… the medicine place. She just says, drive straight to the bins. I'm like, where am I going? And I'm driving straight, like, literally straight into the corner of the parking lot, and there's a bin right there. I'm like, oh my god. Because I got excited already, because she'd corrected me a couple times about driving. I pulled the $20 out of my wallet, and I handed it to us in. Bam! You know? I said, you popped the… you popped the stack on this, you know? That was like… and I talked to her, and I said, it's like, it's skunk's gone wild, you know? You just, like, you got… went up, up, up, up, up, and then finally, you know, you got it. So, I've been rewarding her with big money. I said, I'm gonna give you, like, small dollars for small code. I said, but then when you pop the stack, you can get, like, a 20. Because she's a casino girl, she likes cash. So, we have this new virtuous cycle of her doing really good stuff and planning, and she's then… she's also saying a lot, she's… you might ask why I have all these… this bag here in the front of the car. Those are for my sister. And I didn't put them in the back, because I don't want them to get confused with the other garbage bags back there that I'm putting into the footwill, and they're not going to get wet up here, and I'm going to remember that they're here. And then she's carrying around this little garbage bag, and she's, like, you know, she's actively… and it's, like, literally, like, a package of code, right? This garbage bag. They're, like, she has, like, these units now, and I'm talking to people about units, and consolidation, and, you know, small batching and subsystems, and when I, you know, I showed her how to take apart the boxes in Amazon, but I was saying, now I'm compacting the context. The context has gotten too big, so I'm going to compact it, right? Like, this kind of stuff that I've been using. Crazy. So, anyway, man. I hope you could use that.

Pete Kaminski (00:14:57): I hope so, too.

Dave Kaminski (00:14:59): So that's 17 minutes of your time, and I apologize, but I think it might help And also, I think that if you see the struggles that I've had with Claude. you may be able to also see how a lot of people fail hard. Fail soft and fail hard, and maybe if you can have people keep logs and cut and pastes of their odd sessions. And some of its, narratives, is that what I'm gonna call it? I'm not sure, I've forgotten the exact names now, but it's… it had too much stuff, and it was too soft, and then they separate… tried to separate out bone… bone from flesh, and… I'd had all these different words for it to come at it and try and fix it and change it, and it was finally able, after 4 days, to externalize the bone. it had bone, flesh, and dead, and then it put it, and it scored it, and I had it self-scoring itself, and then I would tell it, well, you didn't score it right, and you didn't do this, and you didn't do that, and you failed at this, and you didn't go backwards. You went this way, and you solved the problem, but you never realized that there's other 5 programs that you read for OCR that didn't work. might have worked, because that… the decision at the very end was you realized that the PDF was hyper-compressed, and you were reading this much of the PDF. Not the whole PF. And so, you've discounted 5 codes. that would probably find OCRs, and you back… you got so crazy far into this, but you're not reading it backwards, and so you have to read this backwards, and then realize, you know, you have to… you have to… you know what I'm saying? So I had to give it all these, like, rules to… to do that, and it says, oh yeah, this is whatever, and then I also said crazy stuff, like, you know, like, what are the best knowledge systems in the world? You know, and it went through those, and we named, you know, we had one of the files was named the Talmud, like, really, so I decided that was the best. I also said, you know, well, what computer books would you read, and why? How would those, you know, what advice would you take from them? You know, what would a sysadmin talk to you about? What are the 25 best programs? You know, which would… what would we take from each of those programs, and why? why don't you now evaluate the worst programs, and why, and how they failed, and why, and then apply those to you. And so we kept on doing this to kind of actually improve itself as external sources, and then we got into ChatGPT, and ChatGPT cleaned up stuff that was, like, wrong and right, but then ChatGPT got, like, super aggressive on this one little thing, and the ChatPT, like, ate it alive. And then, you know, it created this… it just… it is un… it's basically said, you know, we unplugged the whatever. That's hardwired in now, and we can't get it out, you know, unless you want us to. And I'm like, fuck no, man, because we're back in the casino again, like, shut this shit down. I need an expert. I have a chest full, too. I've had a… I've had an infected chest since January. And crazy migraines. And sleep problems. But anyway.

Pete Kaminski (00:17:52): Cool.

Dave Kaminski (00:17:53): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (00:17:54): I'm teaching people a completely different thing, kind of.

Dave Kaminski (00:18:00): I'm ready.

Pete Kaminski (00:18:01): And…

Dave Kaminski (00:18:01): I'm ready to listen, I'm sorry that you had 20 minutes, and I know I.

Pete Kaminski (00:18:03): No, not at all.

Dave Kaminski (00:18:05): I hope there was some value to that.

Pete Kaminski (00:18:06): It's a great story, yeah, and a lot of value, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (00:18:16): So, I started… I started working with Cloud Code the day it came out, a year ago, right? And… And before that, I had been writing code with ChatGPT and Claude, and kind of splicing stuff together. I got each of them to be able to do multiple source files in one chunk, so I was giving, you know. Big files, backwards and forwards, big chunks. But anyway, so when I started working with Cloud Code, I… I had the legacy of working before Cloud Code, doing some similar kinds of things. And then… it's a year later, and so the way I teach people how to use Cloud Code is… informed by me using it for a year, and getting to feel like I know how to use it really well. So, that's the good news. The bad news is… They're only… well, the good news and the bad news is they're starting to get, after 5 weeks, they're starting to get to the point where they're doing what we call agents, which is kind of what you have, basically. And they're a lot more… attained, and… Practical and useful. And not as wild and crazy. But… They're also not getting the… Hyperproductivity, or whatever that you probably are, so… But it goes both ways, right? Hyper productivity and hyper, hyper unproductivity. I, I have one of my, I… so the good news and the bad news of the course is I have this range of people from complete newbies with computers, basically, to people who are pretty smart about stuff. It actually skews towards non-technical people a lot, and then a range of ages from, like… I've got some 25-year-old kids. And, and people up to 70. Maybe a little bit more than 70. Some of the 70-year-olds are kick-ass. They actually get it, and they're super smart, and they're doing programming stuff that they never thought they would be able to do. But… Another… another spectrum of people are people who…

Dave Kaminski (00:20:32): Oh, Pete, I didn't hit recording on my side. Is that okay? Are you still getting it?

Pete Kaminski (00:20:36): It's recording, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (00:20:37): Okay, right.

Pete Kaminski (00:20:38): The whole thing.

Dave Kaminski (00:20:39): Okay, good.

Pete Kaminski (00:20:39): So, the course is kind of an experimental thing and a prototype thing, one of my TAs said at the very beginning, before we even started the course, hey, Pete, you're doing this the wrong way. What you're supposed to do is develop the curriculum, develop the things, and then ship those as pre-recorded stuff, and, you know, like, develop the course materials, and then… People watch the videos, right? And I'm like, I can't do it that way. And I've been trying to do it that way for years. Like, literally 2 or 3 years, I've been… I've been teaching… trying to teach AI by developing the course first, and then figuring out how to deliver it. So in this one, it's… I'm delivering the course and figuring out what the course is supposed to be on the fly, which has confused everybody all to hell. But… But I'm so generous with my time, and so generous with my knowledge, and stuff like that. We've got this massive database of how to do stuff with Cloud, and how to do stuff with computers, and how to do stuff in general, kind of. And it's so big that you can't find anything in it now, and I'm starting to teach people how to use Cloud to find stuff in it. But we're gonna be mining it for 6 months, I think, taking… We're giving what?

Dave Kaminski (00:21:56): What's that?

Pete Kaminski (00:21:56): We're going to be taking apart that knowledge base.

Dave Kaminski (00:21:59): Oh, we're going to be mining it, yeah, okay.

Pete Kaminski (00:22:01): mining it. So… So, one of the people… This is the week where we're starting to figure out that

Pete Kaminski (00:22:18): there are two parts to the course. There's the one that got advertised in the beginning of the course, and it's two sessions a week, and then maybe some extra sessions along with that, or something like that. About 3 weeks in, 2 or 3 weeks in, it was like the plenary sessions are bullshit, because there's a mix of people, and… if anybody asks a question, Pete answers it in about 3 or 4 different ways, branching ways, right? So, we make no progress in the plenary sessions. It's just a… you know, mess. So, I invented this thing called field trips, where it's like. kind of like office hours, but with a topic. So, all of the course information and teaching moved out to the field trips, and I kind of intentionally made the plenary sessions just a hub, where, you know, we talk about how to go on field trips, you know, or… how to solve a big problem or something like that, but not anything, like, meaningful, right? So the people that didn't realize that switch have been like, starving for weeks, going, I don't get this course, there's no content to it, there's nothing interesting that happens, it's just a stream of consciousness, right? Because they're only seeing the switching hub, they're not actually seeing the course material, right? But this was the week when some people realized, oh, wait, you mean you have recordings of all of that, and I can use Claude to go through the recordings and, like, pick out what is important to me, and I can… you know, I showed somebody, finally, hey. If you need a how-to of something. and it's been covered, which it probably has, you just tell Claude, hey, like, look at all the session transcripts and assemble me a how-to for me, right? And they're starting to get that, finally, and so that's where we are. Long story short, there's a guy who hasn't been able to catch anything, basically. I had one of my field trip sessions with him. He's like, Pete, I do these workshops, They're kind of workshops where they're almost encounter groups, where you take people with different understandings of a topic. Democracy is the one that he's been working on. Take people with different understandings of a topic, and you ask them some questions, and if you ask it the right way, you can spark a conversation. That nobody realized that they had the depth to be able to participate in, right? So he's like, okay, so… for that, I need these 8.5x11 sheets of paper printed with a few things, like the name of a topic, and a place for me to put green… red and green stickers, yes or no, on this question, right? And a time, or something like that. I think… your Cloud thingy can help me print those, right? And so he literally played around with Cloud Code and Obsidian. to get it to be able to print, you know, just a big title thing and some space for dot votes, right? So, he needed some help, he got stuck a little bit, and so… I showed him how I use Cloud Code. It's like, okay, you know. I… what I do is, I tell people… I've been telling people, what you do with Cloud Code is you… you make a new project folder, and you… and then in the project folder, you put your goals in a short little statement, and then you have Cloud Code write a project plan. that would meet those goals, and then you look at the project plan, and you, like, decide whether or not you like it, you answer some questions with Claude. And then you say, okay, Claude, do this project. So, I never… I never start people off with, hey, Claude, do something. It's always write a project plan for the thing that you're about to do, right? And then we'll check it together. So the way I've been telling people this, my brother… my brother Dave. is going great guns with Cloud Code, but I didn't get to teach him how to do it, and he's just doing it out of his head, right? So he ends up with Cloud Code, barreling down, like, it's a freight train, barreling down something, right? And he's like, oh my god, Claude, don't go there, go there, you know? And, like, there's car crashes and train… train wrecks all over the place. So what we've been doing, class, is we put Cloud code on Rails, right? The Rails are the project plan. To build the rails, we start off with Cloud saying, this is the kind of the direction I want to go, build me some rails, and we'll see how we're going, right? So, just today, we did that, and I said, look, there's a tiny little kink in the rail right here, and the train would, like, derail and go off the wrong direction. Let's just fix that, and then the train will, like, go in the right direction. So… this guy was with the… the… just… I just want to print signs for my… my course. Today we had a new session, and he's got this joke he tells. Actually, let me back up for a sec.

Dave Kaminski (00:27:13): Yeah, you said… you said two things that I wanted to interrupt, but I'm trying to be polite, and I really.

Pete Kaminski (00:27:17): Well, go ahead, go ahead. I've got this in my head, so…

Dave Kaminski (00:27:20): Oh, okay, I forget the first one, but, so you think you can fix the kink in the rail with, Claude, but the, do you want to work in a tech stock, or can we, just start a chat here? I'll just make it a small.

Pete Kaminski (00:27:33): Can we… can we do HackMD? Probably.

Dave Kaminski (00:27:38): Anything… why don't you just drop me… can you drop me a link in the chat?

Pete Kaminski (00:27:41): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (00:27:43): just do that. So, I'm going to talk about.

Pete Kaminski (00:27:44): That's before that.

Dave Kaminski (00:27:45): it, so kink in the rails. So, I told Claude stuff, but then it would forget. And then it… so we talked that about that as blowing the stop signs, and then we would try to kind of harden the code, but… Then it would blow through it anyway, again. And I'm like, why does this keep happening, right? And then sometimes it would… even though it was a simple operation. It would use that rule, and it would misuse that rule in some other case. I think, or it would continue to not do that rule at all. And it just admitted again and again and again to me that it was not doing that rule. Which I found very frustrating. Because I would say to it, you know, I want you to think 3 times, and so I said, oh, yeah, I'm gonna, like, consider it, and then I'm gonna, like, look at the options, and then I'm gonna do it. I'm like, thank you, Claude. go do that, but then do that times 3, so I call that 3 times 3 thinking. Yep. And so that was helpful for it. But it, like… what it… I saw in my code, it over-applied the 3x3 thinking. And then in one case, it saw that there was an error in one of the three, and so that was a blocking move, and it was like a redirect to some other bad part of the program, and it freaked out and didn't know what to do, so it, like, kind of made it up quietly like a child on the side, as opposed to surfacing that for me. And so, I applied some, like, or I would say simple stuff, like, you know, what would sysadmin do? You know, and it's like, well, sysadmin would do this. I'm like, okay, well, let's do it. And at one point, we had, like, a crash, and I'm like, why do we not have a… why do we not have a backup? It's like. because we already talked about 3-2-1 saving. I said we had 321 saving on, on something else, but now we don't have it on our own code, like, so you just over… you're overwriting your files in my OneDrive, like, every single time, with no timestamp? And you're not… they're all different, and it says, yeah, fuck, sorry, that's what I mean, David. I'm like, okay, well, it needs to be more a time machine, it needs to be, you know, you get the point, right? So, it promised that it would do that, but then it also mixed up… I talked… we talked about the, the Chrono, or I guess it's the CronTab, right? Which I looked up the history of the Chron tab, oh my god, that's so fucking amazing. So I talked about… Julie, about the chrono. I said, the Chrono's… I'm at 15 right now, so we… I'm gonna be out of here, you know, or… you know, give this… give this test 15 on the chrono, and then after that, return it back to… take all your bags and put them back under the couch again, because if you don't get it done in 15 minutes, the chrono's out. You have to do it. So, what's my point? So, it was… it was mis… misusing the cron tab. it was using, both its time and the wall clock, and then intermixing them, because I introduced T-40, T-50, and we were supposed to keep it 60-minute sessions, and then it realized… and also. you know, the 60… I chose the 60 because it said we needed to keep them short, but then it said, well, then it said, well, you know, what's really killing us is the tokens and the JSONL, you know, token burn. it's really not the context. First of all, it told me, like, you know, watch the context, you know? I'm like, wait till it's 70, and they'll lock out. I'm like, okay, fine, but then I was doing… I was doing these sessions. And it, I don't know, maybe got all that other stuff that I fucking forgot, I just said it, but it's like, it was doing versions of all these things, they're all, like, intermixing, and it still wasn't… it wasn't following the wall clock, and then it would overask the wall clock, and then it starts saying, well, how much time do you have on… how much time do we need? Well, I can't… I can't predict. I said, well, I have 15 minutes. He says, I have one task that we should work on. I'm like, okay, fine. I do it, it's like, it's done, like. That's, you know, like, 30 seconds. I'm like, Claude, like… what? Like, you can't, like, predict that? No. I could… okay, so I said, let's make a priority list. Fine. So I made a priority list. Then I look at it again, and it gives me the priorities, and I'm like, there's something wrong here. And I said, Claude, what's happening with that priority list? And I said, well, I made a list. I'm like, well, is it, like. most to least important, because that's how priority lists are written. And I said, fuck, I'm sorry. I said, I made a list. But then we keep on adding to it, and so I just add the other stuff to the bottom. I'm like, okay, stop everything. Priorities are most to least important, so put this in an order. I also have, like, what I do on Hotspot is in one bag, what I do on Wi-Fi is in another bag. So it has to check my connection first, and then designate, In, you know, tasks that are… that are Wi-Fi or whatever appropriate, because, look, you're gonna burn my fucking, you know, phone to the ground. And, and then it also can't check its own usage, so I've been downloading my invoices, like, between every session and trying to feed it in. But the Anthropic, doesn't post everything in, like, obvious places, so you can't really see where you're spending your money. I mean, really, truly, I have, like, there's $50 that's fucking invisible that they stole from me. I'm sorry, they fucking stole it from me. And there's a fintech answering it, but it's like… and then it… I'm like, through eight versions of it, it says, I guess we have… we've resolved this, so I'm just gonna close this case. I'm like, fuck no, we gotta, you know, do this. And it says, I need to talk to a person. It refuses to give me a person. So, it's not giving me a person, I'm burning money, and I shouldn't be cursing like here, I should just… I'm in McDonald's, I mean, I just gotta dial down on it. So, anyway, it's, it won't, it won't, It can't manage its own usage. it's asked me what sessions to go and how to do it, and it, you know, you gave me advice, it gave me advice. I tried to follow that advice, but it kind of can't monitor itself, and I'm like, well, why can't you just go to my anthropic? It says, no, I can't do that. download, download, download, download. And it never said, oh, by the way. you know, a 5-hour session is the max on today, or on any day. And it's… it did tell me about the universal time, and I was like, oh yeah, okay, I can see why that's in two different things. And then I've also asked it to self-report at the beginning score, and self-report the current costs that day. And to also do that at the end. and then to put it in… I had it originally put it in, break it down into, like, 5 or… 5 categories, and then self-scoring each of those out of 100, but it stopped doing that. I mean, you know. How? I don't know. And then, Chachi Key said, look, you know, you're monitoring behavior, you shouldn't do that. I'm like. Well, behavior, but it's, like, it doesn't… can't read a PDF properly, and it doesn't, you know, it's going to… it's… it's, you know, compressing a file so it can't read it. It knows a goal is to OCR it, but then it creates something that it can't OCR, so… what is it forgetting, you know? It's like, the forgetfulness becomes a problem, because I can't really work with something. It's forgetting, you know? So… and it's very… I mean, it did build me 10 web pages on the first day. It did build me a map. Could you see my handwriting map? Which is amazing. It's an amazing, it took my… we loaded up 10 pages with all my, Internet Archive stuff. And, and assigned it to all the universities. We created an index, we created an all… and we've had, like, sub-elements of that. So one is, like, to visualize all. One was to medium visualization. And then also we had to break it by decade originally, which is maybe not… I think it broke it in too many pieces, and then it got the thumbnails wrong, and then I said, you know, break it into every 5 years, whatever, so I did that, then it visualized that. You can go to my Kaminski handwriting, no, I'm sorry, to handwritingHistory.org. And just go to the right column, and you'll see all the stuff that is made. And anyone, the one called Kaminsky Archive Map is the coolest one. It's got a heat map. And we had to adjust the color, and some other stuff like that, and whatever, but you click through it. It's kind of super zoomy, but you can go onto it, mostly the East Coast, and click through, and you can… it clicks through to the source and the image, which is great. And so that's really successful. I mean, I thought that was just amazing that we did that in, like, just a couple hours. So one of the tricks is to really have your stuff originally in a structured data that's actually correct. And if you can do that, then you're like, this thing, like, will just do anything for you. But if you have unstructured data, and you think that it's actually going to talk you through it. you're mistaken. And, oh, my advice to you, like, who the fuck am I, right? But my advice to you as someone who's, like, you're at such a high level, like, you can't… you can't see what we look at when we're ants, like, ignorant ants crawling on the ground, like some, like, bad Plato people watching the shadows and thinking it's real, right? We talked about Plato and Socrates, by the way, too. So, That I think that structuring the idea first in ChatGP is the best, because ChatGPT requires that on the front end. And it basically does a… it walks you through, like, okay, well, that's a great idea. I think, here's, like, 3 things. Which one do you like? Oh, yeah, okay, well, how about if we do it this way? Well, how about we do that? Well, if we really want to do this out, we're going to do that, and it keeps pushing back, pushing back, pushing back. The problem is that ChatGP comes very noisy at the far end, so by the time you're on the 11th version of the download, and you've watched it, like, time out, like, a million times, and you keep on clicking on go, restart, you know, re-up, it's like. And sometimes it turns out great stuff, but sometimes, again, like Claude, it forgot all my source… it forgot its own set… source index of indexed. material, complete with titles, which he was able to read on the internet and elsewhere, and with people, names, places, like, everything. And it read through… I think it went through, took the… some of the stuff, and read it on a line, and it couldn't even go back and put the page numbers on it again. It forgot the names, it forgot… like, a lot of the best stuff was in, like, version 7. Right? So, I think maybe talking to your students about, I'd like you to… to grade, I would like you to grade Claude in the versioning And in, you know, in a session or a day. and save some of those files, like, copy the whole session, like, Ctrl-A, CTRL-C, and then drop the whole thing in TextEdit. It's gonna be 1,300, you know, or 1200, or 12,000 lines, but just keep it, and save all those, so that you have the complete conversation, because it's gonna forget. And then you can go back, and you get to a point where you can actually go back and read through it. and care about it enough that they're like, okay, you know, I'm not a coding guy, but I can see that, wow, you know, 3 times 3 thinking becomes a no. Wow, man, I didn't realize that. And, you know, I want to go back to the skeleton idea from, you know, from day 3, that it's, like, totally forgotten, that was, like, super valuable, where it scored itself. And say, you know, can you reapply the skeleton, if you might remember it? And, in terms of project-based consolidation, oh my god, Coke's actually working for me, I think. In terms of, kind of, project-based consolidation, it's… very core on that in a way that I think ChatGPT is much, much better. And.

Pete Kaminski (00:39:04): What do you mean by consolidation?

Dave Kaminski (00:39:06): of code, and… Project consolidation, if that's… neighbors are two separate things, so, like. Like, when… so when Quaad, it'll have, like, it'll be at, like, 67, context, and then all of a sudden, it'll snap to 13. You're like, hey, Claude, what just happened? It said, oh, I just made it simple, I just took all the stuff that was most important, I put it in whatever. I'm like, fuck. So I will go and I'll hit my whole thing. I'll hit my whole page and copy that across. If I see that it's dropped the context, and it's compacted my conversation and compacted its context, its noisy context confuses it. But it doesn't confuse the person. And so I think if you say something like, you know, let's revisit, you know, Plato and Socrates and other, other, philosophical thinkers, do you remember that conversation? You say, okay, well, I have that in a folder, it's called… and this is the… and so I think So, one of the things I'm thinking of is, like, this guy at the NBA that I met one time, and he was in this room with, like, really, like, fucking, like, it was high-end, but it was, like, digital tape. And every time someone threw… every time, like, Magic Johnson threw for 3 points, or back in the day it was 2, they would, you know, okay, you know. you know, whatever, Knicks. number 72, 3 points, and it would, like, captured this 13 seconds, put it on the file, bam, clears it off, right? You know, foul on whatever, fight on the court, and they would… they would just sub-clip all the stuff and put it in folders, very old-fashioned. That's video, this is data, and I think the people suspect, and I think this… these are some of the real gaps, among programmers, I think less. but programmers who are using AI, who may just use it lightly. Or they actually, they just may use it with super high structured data, but it's probably making shit up that they actually can't see. It fails silently and doesn't tell you. And so we have to tell it, I want you… when you fail, you have to fail hard. Like, and there's some scene from Breaking Bad or something like that, that it actually referenced from ChatGPAT over here, and it started using cultural references. And then I also introduced, like, stuff like, hey, you know, this is like a casino where I go in, I don't know how much I'm spending, and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm, like, drunk, and I say to her, like, Claude, you're like a drunk person in the casino, and you're refusing to ride home. you could hurt someone, you know, and I'm trying to help you here. So I give it, like, narratives like that, or I say, hey, look, Cod, you're a goldfish, and then it's like, you know, and it will score itself, like, goldfish, yeah, 3 times, or Dave reminded me 6 times. Dave told me done, which apparently done from ChatGPT. He's like, no, don't use done, because it doesn't mean done, it's really not done. It just means the process was completed, but being done is being re-confused, and it also said the narrative is confusing, Claude, it's too much information, it can't sort it. And now everything is about… also, Claude identified this. It said… said… Claude actually said, you know, about the bone and the flesh. It says, most of what we have here is based on hope. So this stuff's not hardwired. it's a… we hope that it's going to transfer into this, but we don't have any, you know… or the triggers were wrong. The triggers were weighted wrong, or in the case of Claude, ChatGPT said the triggers were, like, upside down. So it would, like… trigger something, and then think through it, and then… forget it. But the trigger wasn't… you know, it's like, it was… this whole sequencing was wrong. I'm like, what the fuck, you know? Stop cursing. But, I mean, my… it was just, like, just… it was just beyond, it was beyond. So, like, the fact that it could put the trigger in the wrong place was just, like, Claude, that's, like, computer code, man, like, you should know that. You know? And so I… and it did take something that it liked from Rust, or something it learned from Rust, I can't remember which. It either liked it or hated it, and that's the one that it rewrote all the code, and then it just… but… and it… this is the other thing that was staggering to me. It overwrote its own code. And it only had a test line that said something like, can I write this? And that's all it had. And it lost everything else. And then it freaked out. And then it went on this, like, wild goose chase. It, like, lost its mind. It looked and looked, and was like, I've got to go do this, I've got to do that, and it was, like, running in circles, like a… like a mad dog, like, biting itself. And it took, like, forever. I think I spent, like, two hours… it was, like, easily an hour or two. Because it lost a file. And then it found it.

Dave Kaminski (00:43:53): It said, new rule. New rule. I blew a stop sign. I lost my mind. I kept on running. New rule. Look closest first, Take your time. Think 3 times 3. Don't freak out. You know, surface the problem. Don't just say, I'm gonna try 25 things. Don't… and this… another one of the PDFs that I found staggering. don't run OCR on 25 items, 24 items. And do it wrong, and then try five programs, and then claim that they're wrong, and then… and then have forced David to restart it after 2 hours of processing. And then have to correct it all, and then figure out why there's… where the fork went wrong and why I have D, you'd have to correct that, too. I lost a small thread of that that was part of the story. Always about the… always about, like, the fact that it actually… didn't… Realized that it had to do a test batch. was… just, like. isn't that, like, doesn't… I mean, GPT knows that. It doesn't test batch. It forces you, even though… even when it says, I'm going to give you everything. and you press go, I want everything. it'll churn, and it'll waste your human time to sit there for half an hour, and they'll say, I'm giving you the first part of this, I want you to check it, and you're like, it's like 10 rows. You just told me… we just… I saw 30 in the last version, now you're giving me 10, and it's worse. and show me everything. And now you've lost the memory, and we've lost Rose, and you're like. So, ChatGPT has some of these recursive overwrite problems as well. Some of them are engineered in. By the… Bots, and by the companies. To slow people down. And that's really tragic. And I did ask, Claude on, like, day 3, I said, why did you… not tell me that ChatGPT was a way to, audit you. I said, is it market pressure? Are you programmed not to do that? And then, like, number one was. you know, I'll admit that there is a competition between bought and, you know, whatever, and I can't really talk out loud about that, but yeah, that might be an issue. I saw… I found that on Reddit, right? And I said, hey, this is on Reddit, is it true or not? And so, oh, this is back to your, your people working, and… oh, God, I might pull it up later. This is back one of the very early things about you were talking about the students and the package. on the course outline, like, obviously you need, like, an FAQ, right? Just get an FAQ and just pipe it, you know? Just… I think you need to externalize all the terms and ask… ask Claude for the terms. Just make a table with, like, 5,000 terms, or whatever, maybe it's 100 terms, or just stack it, like. You know, basically it's beginner errors, intermediate errors, advanced errors, so that it's like, people don't have, like… or you can, like, they'll say, well, I think I'm on level 2. I'm like, well, why don't you go back and look on level 1, because I think something's really bad here, and I'll be able to sort it. I said, I think that might be a level 3 problem. Let's go back and look at that. It's 100, but read through them. There's just keywords like goldfish. You know, drunk. blew through a stop sign, you know, and you can make some of that language human language, with your… with your group, and then maybe introduce it as… as proper lingo that, and you say, you know, or blew through a stop sign, you know, arrow, and then the code for that. Or, Confused on timing, wall clock, and computer time. No, arrow, con. I think it uses Kron. But that's actually cronTab in, Unix, I think. So you can, like, arrow, arrow, arrow. And so that's the… so if you pop it out, it's like, here's, like, regular. And then here's, like, the code, and then here's, like, where that came from, and then even the Wikipedia linked back to Quantab. You're like, oh man, because I actually, I said, in class, I said to the kids, I said, look at your watch, I said, we're almost ready to go. With T-3, we have to get past, and the kid's like, shut it. 2, 3, 2, 1! This is, like, literally this week. I'm like… Stop! I said, your cron tab's wrong. I said, you're confusing seconds with minutes. Right. So, it's funny.

Pete Kaminski (00:48:34): We use Claude a lot differently than you do.

Dave Kaminski (00:48:38): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (00:48:39): And it's… and it's, more sane. And probably more productive and… and, easy to recover from errors and stuff like that.

Dave Kaminski (00:48:50): Huh. So, what is the average person who, so, okay, so, So, let me… I'm gonna try… I'm gonna spin it and not be polite. So, okay, you're doing a great job. I came at it, like, hot and hard, right?

Pete Kaminski (00:49:05): I'm surprised you get anything out of it, actually.

Dave Kaminski (00:49:08): Oh, I'm getting a huge amount out of it, and it's actually built a database for me, and thumbnails, and it's uploading stuff to Internet Archive, and it's got a narrative going. It's great. You know, I've spent, like, 75% of my time fighting with it to try and improve it, but I just need to look at the output, and not the… not the… not the product.

Pete Kaminski (00:49:27): So there's just some basic tool stuff that… that if you did it a little bit differently, you'd be a lot… like, you wouldn't get 70… you wouldn't be fighting it 75% of the time, you'd be fighting it 25% of the time.

Dave Kaminski (00:49:39): Can I jump in? So, I have, I have… this is marketing for you. So, there's the people from the Peter Kaminsky School, then there's the, I went too hard, too hot on this, and I've burnt for $500, and I'm angry, and then there's the… there's, there's, there's… there's, like, a thousand groups of people, right? And so, if you have, like, sessions with, okay, you've already spent all of your money, and you're so angry, and you, you know, do you start from scratch? Do you take my course? Do I help you audit your system, right? And so, these are pockets of people, and then if you try and pipe everyone through, like, no, you have to do it my method.

Pete Kaminski (00:50:14): Fed.

Dave Kaminski (00:50:15): then you're gonna lose a wide group of people, and if you have, like, these other groups, like, you know, I've used Cloud Code for 100 hours, you know, and I'm very successful, and I'm a scientist with, you know, with data sets. I've used it for 100 hours, and I'm a computer programmer. I've used it for 100 hours as a social media tool, and you kind of break… you thin slicing these people, you just have, like, check boxes that they go through. like, subject and whatever, and then frustration level, and then you say, here are… so here's, like, a free bit for you, here's free FAQs. And then… and you give them, like, a couple layers of that to get into your course. And we'll get to know you, and then you say. That's everything I give you for free. There are 2 or 3 people you can talk to that might help you, and then on, like, the last line to really provide expert knowledge. So you become, like, like an online podcaster with a professional heart doctor, right? And you become, like, just the, like, what is this woman's name? She's… she has everyone on. She's the biggest podcaster in the world. This woman, she's, like, 50. And Kathy, listens to her. But you become… you surface all these different things, and then anyone who wants those services can go to it, and then it's just… but in the end, you just… it's a virtuous cycle of finance for you, and of teaching, and then you can have… you can bring in people underneath you, too, who are… who are lesser. educators, right, who've been training in method, and then have some people who are real good with the insane people, some people are good with the… with the… with these different types, right? And you kind of group them, and you say, hey, you've been really great, but I think you need to be in Bob's group, you're really great, but this guy, Ralph, I think he's going to see right through your mind. and just have a 5-minute intro conversation with him. If you want to shift to his group, I think that'd be a good idea for you. And then start… you start shuffling, and then, you know, and they say, well, look, I want to be both. And you're like, okay, well, you know, like, do 2 hours here and, like, 5 hours there, and kind of split it, you know? So, I think that's the marketing direction for you. I think more people will be using this, because it's just so incredible, but anyway, I'm ready to listen, I'm sorry.

Pete Kaminski (00:52:21): I think…

Dave Kaminski (00:52:26): I don't believe.

Pete Kaminski (00:52:29): I like that, I like that architecture, and it kind of goes along, you know, I've kind of been thinking something similar, but… Most people are never going to try Cloud Code. And… and if they had, like, a hundredth of the experience that you did, they would just quit and give up.

Dave Kaminski (00:52:47): Right. So, what's…

Pete Kaminski (00:52:50): What's gonna happen… what's gonna happen instead is… we're gonna start shipping agents, different people will ship different agents, and the agents just do things for you, right? Right. And so all of the work that you're doing. some software development company or agent development company, is just gonna, like, compress all of that and say, here's the thing that does the thing, you know? Yeah. And it's like… and some customers are gonna go, hey, the thing didn't work, and they'll just, like, let me… let me grab that and put… give it back with an upgrade, and it'll just work. So… So, some of the… some of those people will be willing to pay… some of the agent customers will be paying real money for agents, like, that my team develops. A lot of them are going to be getting free agents from, from Facebook and Microsoft and crap like that, right? So, they're going to have some agent that is monetizing everything about them, that, you know, they need a service from some agent, and the agent is going to basically be on Mark Zuckerberg's leash, you know? So… nobody's gonna do cloud code, in, you know, 18 months, 12 months. So could I…

Dave Kaminski (00:54:07): Push back against that, or no?

Pete Kaminski (00:54:09): I… the thing that I'm really interested in, I… there's just some simple, like, kind of, like, structural things. If you just… Did things a little bit differently. You'd have that 75% error rate down to 25%, like that, kind of. 75% frustration rate down to 25%. And it would be a little bit of a mind shift, but not a lot. And we should talk through how to get you there, I think. So you can push back on whether or not you think agents are going to take over. If you want.

Dave Kaminski (00:54:49): Yeah, so let me tell you why. Because I think that there will always be people innovating, always will be people creating, people who want to work in private, right? So, they're gonna say, look, I have this tattoo business for, you know, that I don't want to talk about, that whatever, super private stuff, or I'm, like, whatever, I identify as whatever. And, I want to build this, or I'm building this kind of… Personal, top secret, whatever, mineral business, right? And I don't want to use someone else's code. And I wanted to work with my custom database that I have built over 25 years, but it has… it's not… I'm returning just enough errors, even though it's only 5% errors. My minerals are, like, $10,000 each. And so it's cost me $50,000 a day, these errors. And I can't go back to mineral, agent.com. And they're not gonna fix this for me. And so, you're gonna be, like, the repair God who the… the expert repair got in all these fields. And then there's gonna be the musician, and then there's gonna be the… the filmmaker, and then… I mean, there's… When you really start thinking about how many jobs there are. You say musician, but, you know, look at an orchestra. How many instruments? How many levels of expertise? And we're like, oh, wow, that's like… Is that a thousand? I don't know. Armer? Okay, well, plumbing your house? Industrial plumbing? Plumber ownership. plumber in a nuclear plant, power plant? Plumber in space, have a toilet that doesn't work. That's NASA, right? So, I think that… and you can start going to the moon and stuff like that, I just think that it's going to continue to explode, and I think that there's a lot of heavy money in the very small places. And so, even though maybe 90% of the public is going to be learning TikTok dancing, you're gonna still want the ballroom experts. Yeah. And then they're gonna have a pile of money, and so it's, you know, it's, you know, Tina Turner doesn't know how to dance yet. But she's got a concert, you know, with a hip-hop DJ, you know, in 3 weeks. And she says, look, I've got 3 weeks. Tell me how much it is. I mean, however many hours I have to work. And I want you to make this for me. And you say, okay, well, I can make it. 3 weeks is not very much time, plus I have to train it, plus I have this, and they're like. I'm Tina Turner. Tell me how much it costs. I'm looking for the results, because I'm gonna be on TV, and everyone's gonna be recording it. So, you say.

Pete Kaminski (00:57:39): I agree. So, we violently agree. It's to me, a little bit like the software business in the 80s, or something like that. So… except instead of applications from 1980, we're gonna have agents from 2027, right? There's gonna be, you're right, 90% of the people are gonna be serviced by Word… WordPress, WordPerfect, Microsoft Word, 123, and Lotus, whatever, right?

Dave Kaminski (00:58:11): That's gonna be.

Pete Kaminski (00:58:12): 90% of the people. There's gonna be 10% of the people who are paying people like you and… or, sorry, me and Heather, you know, like, hey, I need an agent that does XYZ, I'm Tina Turner, I need it to do exactly this, and I'm willing to pay you $100,000 for the next 3 weeks, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (00:58:30): Literally, maybe. It's crazy.

Pete Kaminski (00:58:31): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (00:58:32): Because it might be that effective for them, you know? I mean, if you could fix the toilet with software for NASA, and you could just beam it up to the toilet, I mean, like, what's that worth for the astronauts without, like, you know, doing what you gotta do?

Pete Kaminski (00:58:44): The… the… we're going to get to a place where somebody like you, who just needs to get shit done, won't be building the software to get the shit, or building the agents to get shit done, right? So all of the frustration and pain and suffering and enjoyment and pleasure and excitement that you've got, you're gonna… future Dave, Dave from 2 years from now, would just… Probably buy most of it off the shelf. And then, like, one or two… you know, you'd buy… 50 years.

Dave Kaminski (00:59:16): By four agencies, yeah, exactly. They get cheaper, and I just buy more. I'm like, they're all gonna solve it together by talking. Heather, which is what your guys are doing.

Pete Kaminski (00:59:24): And then you'll have, like, one or two where it's like, oh, I need to hire my brother… brother Pete, or whatever, to build this one little Keystone one that's gonna, like, make everything… everybody else work, or something like that. It's… it's software all over again, kind of, but now it's gonna be agents.

Dave Kaminski (00:59:39): Yeah, and that's… I think that's… I think the way you stack that and the way you, evolve that makes sense to me, just from structurally and market-wise. I think that makes sense. But as… as it iterates. Right? And there's always going to be that cycle, no matter what. And so, in two years, it's not going to be clogged, but it's going to be something else, and it'll be like, oh my god, and it's like, you wake up one morning, and it's different, and you wake up the next morning, and it's different, and you wake up the next morning, it's like.

Pete Kaminski (01:00:02): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (01:00:03): Why didn't I wake up? Why didn't I go to sleep this afternoon and wake up at 10?

Pete Kaminski (01:00:07): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (01:00:07): So I could get 2 hours of work, because everyone on Wall Street just bought oil at $55, and now it's at $110. Like, I was asleep. I could have doubled my money, like, what am I thinking? It's like, it makes no sense. So, I think people will probably literally sleep in… that's… I mean, I'm not joking, I think people will probably literally, sleep in shifts themselves to accommodate this, so people start, chunking out their days, and it won't even just be the, I'm working, and then the guy in… you know, that… you know, like, 3… I don't think it'll be 3 time zones anymore. And it might be at least 6 time zones, and then maybe even between that, those guys are kind of coming back and forth in this kind of recursive thing, like, okay, well, let me jump back into that group, I want to see if you've made any progress, because I'm a human, and you guys are code, but… there's this one thing that you did, this spread that you missed, you know, the skeleton is gone out of this, and I can see that, but you guys can't, you weren't there. It was only 4 hours ago, but without that, this whole thing's not gonna work. So, it's gonna change… Yeah, I'll leave it there.

Pete Kaminski (01:01:12): Alright, so we should do, show and tell. You should show me how your system works, and I should show you how my system works.

Dave Kaminski (01:01:19): Oh, wow. Okay. Okay, let me start.

Pete Kaminski (01:01:23): And we should go really slow.

Dave Kaminski (01:01:25): Oh, wow. Okay, so, let me take a quick bathroom break. Okay. And the first thing I want to know is, do you feel like I wasted an hour and 4 minutes of your time?

Pete Kaminski (01:01:34): Not only.

Dave Kaminski (01:01:35): Okay, do you feel like there was value to it at all, or there might be some future knowledge? Yeah, that's, like, the most important thing, almost more importantly, succeeding. Okay, give me, I need 2 minutes.

Pete Kaminski (01:01:46): Cool. See you then.

Pete Kaminski (01:01:55): Yeah, we're back. You're muted.

Dave Kaminski (01:02:01): Oh, sorry. So, yeah, definitely two sessions. One is, like, the talk too much, and this is the kind of code version. Can you see my screen, or how… what are we gonna do?

Pete Kaminski (01:02:11): Can you share your screen?

Dave Kaminski (01:02:13): Probably, I'm in Zoom, right? Yep. more…

Dave Kaminski (01:02:24): I don't know, man, where do I show my screen?

Pete Kaminski (01:02:27): Down at the bottom, there's a button that says share.

Dave Kaminski (01:02:33): Not seeing it. I've got audio, video, participants, chat, more, and then leave. And then in the more it's… oh, there's share right there. I just… I blew through the stop sign.

Dave Kaminski (01:02:48): Typical. I should have looked closest where it is. look in the most obvious place. Like, I have that internal dialogue right now, which is really helpful. I'm like, okay. Okay, so… Screen and system audio recording. It opened that up. Hmm. Terminal… oh, Zoom. I have to toggle in Zoom, okay. Privacy, give your password…

Pete Kaminski (01:03:15): We have to leave and come back.

Dave Kaminski (01:03:19): Modify settings. Quit and reopen, resume.

Pete Kaminski (01:03:25): See you soon.

Dave Kaminski (01:03:26): Okay.

Dave Kaminski (01:03:52): Hi, Pete, can you hear me?

Pete Kaminski (01:03:53): Yes.

Dave Kaminski (01:03:54): Okay, so I'm gonna go into share. This time I'm gonna learn. share… whoops. Allow. This is pretty fast. Desktop. Okay, as you know, I have, like, you know, 40 windows open, so it's just, like, it is what it is. You'll see a lot of my visual chaos here. I think I could try and move some of my visual chaos off the… off the screen here, just there's, like, less absolute rubbish for you to stare at. I'm just gonna kind of move it at least to the side. And if you want to kind of clip it later… Pardon me. Oh, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (01:04:38): I don't know, man, I'm just trying to… Oh, that's my old… so this is my old terminal. And, I think one of my decisions is to actually leave that open. I don't know what to tell your students. But I think it's a really good idea to leave that open, or to… well, you can… I'm sorry, you can close it. We'll copy it first.

Pete Kaminski (01:05:03): Just, just do it.

Dave Kaminski (01:05:05): Yeah, I'm gonna actually just… hit BAM on it, but I do have…

Pete Kaminski (01:05:09): No, no, leave it.

Dave Kaminski (01:05:11): Okay, there's also a view and show all tabs, and I used to have two, or… it actually told me, oh, you can run Claude in one, and you can run the auditor in a second one, and I said, that's not working for me, I can't really work with two, that's gonna be a hassle.

Pete Kaminski (01:05:27): You do want to use 2, but you want to use a different terminal app. You should be using iTerm2 and Tmux. Okay. So I'm going to.

Dave Kaminski (01:05:38): You, you want to just… you want to just walk me through one problem at a time? Is that what you want to do?

Pete Kaminski (01:05:43): No, I'm gonna take a note on that one. I mean, the big, really big ones, I'll… I'll say, yeah, let's…

Dave Kaminski (01:05:51): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:05:52): Anyway, I'm gonna take a note.

Dave Kaminski (01:05:53): Okay, I mean, I mean this politely, like, I'll kind of rush forward in my own way, and then you'll say, like, you know, full stop, Dave, just hold on this kind of thing.

Pete Kaminski (01:06:01): Yeah, no worries.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:03): And I've been saving all my stuff in, like, like, in Markdown, in my Apple Notes.

Pete Kaminski (01:06:11): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:11): And then I've been.

Pete Kaminski (01:06:12): Oh my god.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:12): naming them? With numbers?

Pete Kaminski (01:06:16): Oh my god.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:18): so I have sessions,

Pete Kaminski (01:06:19): Oh my god.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:20): I had.

Pete Kaminski (01:06:21): Sorry, David.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:22): That's alright, laughter's good. Laughter's positive. That's what I heard. I also have Sublime Text, I don't know if there's ain't good or, you know, better or worse, but, that's an option.

Pete Kaminski (01:06:31): Blind Text?

Dave Kaminski (01:06:33): Sublime…

Pete Kaminski (01:06:35): Sublime Text, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:38): Yeah, Sublime Text.

Pete Kaminski (01:06:39): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy crap.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:42): But I have not been using it, which, maybe I shouldn't.

Pete Kaminski (01:06:47): And maybe… maybe… Maybe we should switch. And I'll show you. Three minutes of stuff.

Dave Kaminski (01:06:57): I'm just trying to close some of the stuff I have, because it's just, like, so… so… Oh, this was… what was this? behavior analysis. I got some really fantastic stuff.

Pete Kaminski (01:07:09): Stuff like this. Awesome.

Dave Kaminski (01:07:10): Yeah, so I also, I think maybe I told it to split, so it's got boot, proto, executive, data, system, cost, verification, quality, So I can send you my whole vault if you want. Oh, that's the other thing that I really think that would be a super valuable thing for you. Oh, so… so this is broken into, let's see, source, trigger, action, type. Failure mode, enforcement via, and then fix. So that was all here. Yeah. So, that's pretty good. So I have, like, several behavior analysis… analyses. I actually really feel obliged to walk you into my vault, so you can just see what that looks like.

Pete Kaminski (01:07:55): When you say vault, what do you mean?

Dave Kaminski (01:07:57): The Obsidian?

Pete Kaminski (01:07:59): If I… oh, Obsidian, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Dave Kaminski (01:08:02): Yeah, so I… I created, like, a side, like, vault for Claude's Memory, which was my version of saving stuff, but then I didn't really save it, and it wasn't saving well, so Dave's Vault is what it… it created for me, I believe, with, with.

Pete Kaminski (01:08:18): Sweet.

Dave Kaminski (01:08:18): with Obsidian.

Pete Kaminski (01:08:20): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (01:08:20): And, I also taught it to automatically download anything in my, My screenshots while we were working, and also the… to check my downloads folders for the, cost analysis automatically. So, I've got billing, Which is pretty obvious, I think. Guide, Cloud Code, read this. Preferences. Read me… Sessions… session MDs, which are kind of cool. Strengths. usage… It has the costs. vocabulary technical terms it built for me, which are… it's kind of weak, actually. Workflows. It actually kind of defended itself, but when it scores itself very high, I'm like, bro, it's like, you just ate, like, 3 hours of my stuff, so don't give yourself, like, an 82, because the problem at the middle that we just fixed, that you gave yourself credit for, that was, like, all we've done is, like, fix your problems. Archive Master Plan, Bootstrap, architectural behavior analysis. Two of the CSV and also an MD, Repair Behavior, Bootstrap, ChatGPT Audit, Cloud Rules 1, Bash, and whatever, Supervisor. Yeah, maybe, can I make this bigger? Can you see this?

Pete Kaminski (01:09:34): Yeah, I can see it fine.

Dave Kaminski (01:09:35): Dead Ends, which I liked, Design Log, I Hold This, Minority Opinions, that's from the Talmud, which held everything, apparently. Protocol, README, README, Scratch. I think Scratch was usually… what was before was our dump, and now it's, like, maybe our… our holding zone, like, don't throw… the… one of the rules was don't throw anything away. Because we might need it later. snapshots. Not really sure what those are, but I appreciate it.

Dave Kaminski (01:10:04): validate, I'm not sure what that is, code. Pass-through is something that I made, to actually told the… I said, record everything that we're doing, and then once you finish the job, then you can go and, go ahead and execute the code, and then if we've got it, then just clear it. And then it… but then I think it started to not save as much as it needed to. I'm like, well, you know, kind of we may be in stages of that. It made some decision. It didn't realize that I had Dropbox, even though I told it I had Dropbox, so it tried to sell me Backblaze twice. I'm like, bro, like, you know, it's like, oh yeah, buy BlackBlaze, it's only, like, you know, $8 a month. I'm like, I have Dropbox. It's like, oh wait, that's free, I forgot, sorry, download it. And I'm like… It's like, it keeps on trying to download Python, too, which is crazy, because my machine doesn't run on Python. So it…

Pete Kaminski (01:10:49): Keeps on giving me…

Dave Kaminski (01:10:50): give me… oh, mine won't take the version 3, that it's…

Pete Kaminski (01:10:55): Well, there's… everybody… everybody on Mac has, like, 100 versions of Python on the computer.

Dave Kaminski (01:11:00): Oh, no, it told me that I can't use whatever ChatGPT's writing for me. It told me, well, Claude told me that I don't have V3 of something. So, I have Dropbox and an Archive, OneDrive, Sync Status, it's supposed to, you know, do whatever in certain times. Archive… it's fetching all this stuff on eBay.

Pete Kaminski (01:11:23): Thanks for the Metro Ruby, isn't that cool? Thanks for the Oxford.

Dave Kaminski (01:11:30): You wanna, you wanna close it up too much? Okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:11:33): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (01:11:33): So… Let me see if there's anything else here that looks…

Pete Kaminski (01:11:37): I'm pretty… well, I'm, like… Traffic control, whatever.

Dave Kaminski (01:11:41): Mineral…

Pete Kaminski (01:11:41): I'm really impressed that you've gotten.

Dave Kaminski (01:11:42): narrative.

Pete Kaminski (01:11:43): And that you're… you haven't, like, just given up on the thing.

Dave Kaminski (01:11:47): Oh, no, I think I've really gotten there. Oh, suggested improvements. Okay, okay, I'll shut up. Go ahead. I'll close Dave's vault.

Pete Kaminski (01:11:55): Let me… I guess…

Dave Kaminski (01:11:59): You can record your session and then send me the video. Why don't you stop and restart?

Pete Kaminski (01:12:04): Duffy a screen share, and then I'll share mine.

Dave Kaminski (01:12:07): Okay, yeah. And then, maybe you want to break this into two pieces as a video, so that you don't, like, destroy yourself in me.

Pete Kaminski (01:12:14): No.

Dave Kaminski (01:12:14): And then you can.

Pete Kaminski (01:12:15): Reset.

Dave Kaminski (01:12:15): The video to me.

Pete Kaminski (01:12:16): So, I think instead of… and this is… this isn't going to be in order of importance. So, iTerm2, instead of Terminal, i2Term has nice tabs. Tmux? Or multiple eye terminos…

Dave Kaminski (01:12:37): Okay, hold on. You're too small on my screen, I don't know how to make you bigger. How do I do that?

Pete Kaminski (01:12:42): My… me as a person, or…

Dave Kaminski (01:12:45): Oh, there it is, I couldn't grab the… couldn't grab the corner of it. Okay, I got you. I couldn't read it, it was, it was microphone.

Pete Kaminski (01:12:50): No, that's it.

Dave Kaminski (01:12:51): I got it, I got it.

Pete Kaminski (01:12:51): Well, I'm also gonna make it bigger. Okay. Okay, so I term instead of terminal. Consider using, Rectangleapp.app.

Dave Kaminski (01:13:25): Oh, that's for my overall screen disaster.

Pete Kaminski (01:13:28): Yeah, I don't use it very, very much, but I use it a lot for a little bit of stuff, so… There's a hotkey for… put it on the left half of the screen, a hotkey of right half. If I need two things, I can put them together like this. So those are.

Dave Kaminski (01:13:45): Yes.

Pete Kaminski (01:13:45): And there's a lot more hotkeys, and we just used about, like, 80% of the hotkeys I ever use. But just this, the ability to do this is super powerful. So, goodbye.

Dave Kaminski (01:14:02): Did it help?

Pete Kaminski (01:14:05): So, maybe… Type Wara…

Dave Kaminski (01:14:09): And how am I going to distinguish whether I need these or not? Because you have consider and maybe, which to me are soft terms, and I'm getting very artistic on stuff. Like, you know, the or a become a problem for me. Is it the desk?

Pete Kaminski (01:14:20): That's the way.

Dave Kaminski (01:14:21): No worries there.

Pete Kaminski (01:14:21): thing to ChatGPT and say, help me with this. My smart brother Pete said, blah, you know, what the hell does it mean? Or something, I don't know. Maybe Typura for Markdown editing. You should… you should start using Obsidian.

Dave Kaminski (01:14:42): I thought… so this is what I don't understand. Obsidian… just became the… Obsidian was… just created the vault, and I couldn't understand why it was anything except that.

Pete Kaminski (01:14:55): Yeah, so…

Dave Kaminski (01:14:56): I downloaded Obsidian, and then Claude used Obsidian, but it didn't do anything else for me. I'm like, oh, it's just like a holding place.

Pete Kaminski (01:15:03): And then start using Git.

Dave Kaminski (01:15:06): Okay, so, can we back up till I start using Obsidian? Obsidian's a program, I downloaded it.

Pete Kaminski (01:15:11): So… So let me show you.

Dave Kaminski (01:15:14): Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Claude made it a slave, and never gave it, you know, free rights as a free man. And so I never realized I could or should use it.

Pete Kaminski (01:15:24): This is what Obsidian is supposed to look like.

Dave Kaminski (01:15:27): Never seen that in my life.

Pete Kaminski (01:15:29): So this is the only reason people use Obsidian, not to make vaults, but to look at a.

Dave Kaminski (01:15:34): Mr.

Pete Kaminski (01:15:35): Markdown files. So these are all the Markdown files in this small vault. This is only a 20… 20-page, 15-page vault, right? This is actually the thing that I've been… I should have shipped this to you a week ago or something when I started to have it. This is how we work, how the class works. So…

Dave Kaminski (01:16:00): Can I ask you a quick question? So, basically, Obsidian is, like, a Markdown reader, and it replaces, like, my… it replaces, like, my.

Pete Kaminski (01:16:09): Apple notes.

Dave Kaminski (01:16:10): Apple Notes. Yeah. Is that what it is? Okay, so it's like… or it's like a Microsoft Word, and I'm cutting and pasting… I'm moving stuff. Can I…

Pete Kaminski (01:16:19): So you can edit here.

Dave Kaminski (01:16:21): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:16:23): Let me start a new vault real quick. So you… you saw this, and that's where you created a vault, and then… and then you got distracted, and…

Dave Kaminski (01:16:34): Oh, wow, I didn't know that I should use it after that. They didn't indicate that I needed it, and that's why I ended up in the black hole that I'm in. But that's actually not my biggest problem, because I can actually…

Pete Kaminski (01:16:47): Well, it gets… it gets better. There's… there's reasons beyond… like, you're doing fine-ish, the way you are. But just one thing, right? if I want to keep track of one project with 15 vials, all of a sudden, I've got all of them. I don't have to go over to Finder. And I can, but I don't have to. I can go into Obsidian and say, so what you were doing was looking at your vault this way, right? In Finder. But I've got all that stuff right here, and I could just.

Dave Kaminski (01:17:19): Right. Right, and then the other rule that is a requirement for every person, whether you're good or not at this, is go back and clean your folders and restructure your folders as you need to. One of the problems that I did have with Claude was it couldn't rename. I said, let's go back and name everything, like, the way it's supposed to be named. So, it was supposed to say sysadmin, call it sysadmin. It was supposed to be clon tab, call it clon tab. It's like, oh yeah, we'll do all that, and then it… I said, do I want to think about that twice, just in case it's wrong? It's like, oh, oh my god, I should have said that. It's like, two of those would be deadly to your program. We can change three, I'm like… okay, do that, think one more time. I said, I did. Those… we can change 3, but we can't change those two. So it, so it couldn't go back and rename, two of the files, but I think that people have to clean and organize, you know?

Pete Kaminski (01:18:08): It's… yeah, the think three times thing is a really cool hack. And… I don't ever have Claude do that, because I've got a better way to do it. Okay.

Dave Kaminski (01:18:21): That's fair.

Pete Kaminski (01:18:23): And I'll try to show it to you, probably not in this session, but, you know, so anyway, the reason to use Obsidian is because it… it organizes, like, you can… this is a mini finder, basically. Right. And this is the… reader-writer thing, the editor, and then there's extra stuff you can do over here. So then, I don't even know if you're using links. No. I'm trying to find a small one here.

Dave Kaminski (01:18:59): What were you just in Spelunk Vault, so that's a kind of a sort finder?

Pete Kaminski (01:19:04): Each of… each of these is a separate Obsidian window, and it's… One vault, one folder with a bunch of files and subfolders, right?

Dave Kaminski (01:19:13): Wow.

Pete Kaminski (01:19:14): I'm going to… redo that, because there's an Obsidian bug where you can't drag the… You can't drag the window, and I don't know when it happens or why. Maybe I can drag it there, okay. Maybe… so maybe… So… Let me show you, let me show you Spelunk Vault the way you're used to looking at vaults.

Dave Kaminski (01:19:42): Okay. And I like the, I like the numbering, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (01:19:46): The whole purpose of of Spelunk Vault is… it's almost an empty vault. To help a nonfiction… a person writing a nonfiction book. So, there's… You know, if you want to do your project management for writing your book, there's folders for all of that. The folders are pretty much empty. Except for System Guide, which is how to use spelling quilt, right? And here's the file structure and the tags and workflows. Here's how to keep writing logs, here's a sample log. So, it's empty, except for the instructions on how to use it, and some samples, and stuff like that, right? Here's where you're actually writing your book, your back matter, your chapters, your front matter. You have a style guide, here's your research folder, you're keeping track of your bibliography and stuff. Yada yada, you kind of get the idea. So… Notice there's a lot of files in here, a lot of files and folders. That are nested. That are nested, for better or for worse. trying to read these a file at a time in whatever, you know, I can open these in TextEdit. Or…

Dave Kaminski (01:21:02): Is that your preferred… Danny? Huh?

Pete Kaminski (01:21:06): No, my preferred, I've already written it on our Google Doc, actually. My preferred one is called Typora, and it costs 15 bucks, and it's totally worth it. Right now, it's big because… well, I guess it's okay, kind of. Typora also is a text editor. It does a single file at a time, so you might ask, why, Pete, do you have a text editor for your things and another text editor for your things? Typora is a better text editor. Obsidian is actually pretty good at text editing, but it's not great. Type Word is better. And you can use them both at the same time, because they're both reading and writing Markdown files.

Dave Kaminski (01:21:47): Oh, and where are those files going? Are they going… are they… are they…

Pete Kaminski (01:21:50): They're just in the same vault structure that you've got.

Dave Kaminski (01:21:53): Is… does Typora have its own vault structure? Is it writing to the exact same structure that…

Pete Kaminski (01:21:59): They're both…

Dave Kaminski (01:21:59): Right, right.

Pete Kaminski (01:22:00): The exact same files.

Dave Kaminski (01:22:02): To the same vault.

Pete Kaminski (01:22:03): The same vault, the same files.

Dave Kaminski (01:22:05): And Typhor knows to use the Obsidian Vault. Are you.

Pete Kaminski (01:22:10): Well, it's because… it's because it's… it's like a… it's like Notepad or TextEdit, right? You do file open, and you open. Well, actually, let me show you… so… I'm gonna make, wow, that's weird. There's a button here that I can't see.

Pete Kaminski (01:22:31): Let me try to close this and open it one more time.

Pete Kaminski (01:22:37): Or actually, maybe even better…

Pete Kaminski (01:22:43): The one we were looking at, Splunk Volume, yes. Huh.

Dave Kaminski (01:22:59): How much of this stuff should I read that's in these, like, these Obsidian folders, or how much should I understand about Obsidian? Is that gonna make me smarter, or how many of these side folders do you have? Should I read? Should I spend, like, you know, 30 hours reading through all that stuff and understanding.

Pete Kaminski (01:23:16): Oh my gosh.

Dave Kaminski (01:23:17): structure you've built?

Pete Kaminski (01:23:19): so, I've got… I've got a few vaults. I've got, Getting Started. Getting started.

Dave Kaminski (01:23:29): So, I would recommend… I would recommend that a time, limit, for each of these would be good. So, beginner there will be two values for, every folder or every task. The low number is for experts, the high number is for beginners, so it'd be 15 to 30 minutes, something like that, so people can navigate through your stuff, maybe. I don't know if that's useful, but…

Pete Kaminski (01:23:53): Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (01:23:54): Otherwise, they're like, if they see it's 5 minutes, they'll know that they're working too hard. If they see it's 60 minutes, they're like, oh wait, I better sit down and.

Pete Kaminski (01:24:01): Getting started is… is, like, gets… You end up building a whole set of tools that work together. And it's worth spending, like. 2 hours on this, or 3 hours, but you don't have to do it all at once, you can kind of do it in pieces. But then there's other things, like, I actually do have an Obsidian vault.

Dave Kaminski (01:24:25): Can I map… can I map what I have across to your framework? Or as a way to…

Pete Kaminski (01:24:31): Well…

Dave Kaminski (01:24:32): Bring in.

Pete Kaminski (01:24:32): I…

Dave Kaminski (01:24:33): I do have to silo everything I've got and just, like, start from scratch, because I have some really good shit.

Pete Kaminski (01:24:37): You could… you could use Cloud Code to actually help you make a map. And the other thing is, you don't have to do it my way. But… but… the way that… you know, there's, like, 4 or 5 things. Obsidian and Cloud Code, Cloud Code in the sidebar, and Git and GitHub. There's, like, 5 things that, when you get them all working together, all of a sudden, it's a lot easier to do everything.

Dave Kaminski (01:25:05): And tell me… and give me Git and GitHub, because I asked it to look at the GitHub, and then it did, or it didn't, I can't remember. And I… GitHub's just a repository for Code, isn't it?

Pete Kaminski (01:25:15): So there's… there's three of these. There's getting started with the 5 different things, and then there's an Obsidian one, and then there's a Git one. And here's the page for Git versus GitHub.

Dave Kaminski (01:25:25): 5? And go to the bottom. President.

Pete Kaminski (01:25:29): So, this whole thing, you know, the Git guide, you spend, like, 15 minutes on it once, and then 15 minutes on it again in a week, and then half an hour again in two weeks, or in a month, or something.

Dave Kaminski (01:25:42): You know, put that in your… put that in your course. Recurring tasks, so people know what to go back to look at, because this is where people get stuck, because they think… you think that they might remember it, or… they think they might remember it, and they don't realize, wait, it's kind of like the oil change, you know, or whatever, change the transmission fluid at 100,000, like, well, no one ever told me, and you're like, well, but, you know, it's in the manual. Like, well, I didn't buy the car new, so I never got it, and so these kind.

Pete Kaminski (01:26:07): Tomorrow…

Dave Kaminski (01:26:08): things.

Pete Kaminski (01:26:08): is session, holy crap, tomorrow is… Tomorrow's the last session, actually. Tomorrow and Friday. I even got two shocks. Last session, oh my god. But anyway, literally today, earlier today, I was saying. This is why I told everybody at the beginning, I showed you how to do this, and… You know, and it's really important, because otherwise things go off the rails. And so, a smart facilitator student, she said, Pete, maybe this is a thing that you want to come back to tomorrow in your final session, you know? Like, that little loop of stuff that keeps everybody on track, we had no clue why you were teaching it to us back then. We had no idea.

Dave Kaminski (01:26:53): Right, right.

Pete Kaminski (01:26:53): And everybody's, like, off the rails.

Dave Kaminski (01:26:55): We're hearing about new areas, exactly.

Pete Kaminski (01:26:57): You know? So anyway. Yeah. So each of these is kind of the way… well, what I was trying to show you is the way that you were looking at Vault in Finder, it's a valid way to look at it, and you can still do that. Oh, I guess the other thing I was going to show you was, if you have… If you have Obsidian, and I turned off that sidebar because we're not using it right now, and you have Typora, I can just say, open this in Typora, open in default app, which is going to be Typora. And then, if I… Oh, I actually have to click on this. So these are the same… it's the same file. If I change stuff over here…

Dave Kaminski (01:27:43): Alright, hold on for a second, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

Pete Kaminski (01:27:46): It pops up over here. If I change stuff over here… I think I actually have to do Command-S over there. It's gonna pop up there. So they're writing to the same file, they're writing and reading to the same file. When I make changes in Obsidian, Obsidian auto-saves the file, and… Let me do a different… Set of… Obsidian is waiting, and then it saved the file, and then it popped up over here. As soon as it changed, Typora picked it up.

Dave Kaminski (01:28:23): By the way.

Pete Kaminski (01:28:25): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (01:28:25): I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I'm, you know, I'm so ADD. That's everything that blew my mind, is that Claude will actually execute something. But it won't actually save the file first, and then execute. So I had to say, Claude, stop. save the file to the thing first, and then after you've saved it, then execute it. It's like, oh, wow, great idea, never occurred to me. And I'm like, oh my god. It's like… because even inside of its own operations, it doesn't know how to do that. Which is just… was mind-blowing to me. I'm like, I thought you were, you know…

Pete Kaminski (01:28:53): time.

Dave Kaminski (01:28:53): program, you know? Well, it was actually… well, it actually was losing the information, it was forgetting what it was doing, it couldn't go back and reference it, and it's like, well, I'm a selfless state. I'm like, yeah, but we're building you as a system, you know. we're… we're building the machine right now, so if we're building the machine, why don't you have 321, why don't you have sysadmin? Why don't you have this? It's like, you know, we're building it, it's like… and then ChatGT's like, you know, you have to stop kind of treating it like a machine. This is a really bad idea, it's not, you know, and it gave me all these other things, but I… and then I went that back to… to, Claude, sorry to interrupt, but it said, actually, we are really doing what we're supposed to be doing. I'm a research tool. you've done a really good job. The real magic is in the CSV that we built, and that's really happening. And all this stuff, all these permissions around it, all these behaviors around it are Are taking us a lot of time, but we're making a lot of progress, and the real… the real secrets in the sauce is already in the CSV, but like I said, we're kind of like… those… those… those behaviors bleed over into our source data. And they bleed over, and they burn, and so that's why I'm just, like, stuck. I don't know, maybe you can untangle that for me later, I just… I just don't understand why a computer can't, like, you know, or whatever, a system that you built… You know, with… with… you know, with… with hard triggers, and execute, even though… and it's like, well, I'm sorry, it's got a hard trigger, but I didn't execute. I'm like. What?

Pete Kaminski (01:30:17): You've, you've got a pretty good model of what cloud code is, and there are parts of it that are not right, and that's what.

Dave Kaminski (01:30:23): that are broken, and it breaks itself, and it breaks me, and then it's generalizing. Like, it'll give me the number 12, but it really means 53, and I'm like, Claude, why did you give me a number, a value that's actually wrong? Yep. You know, or it was matching my tone, so one of the things it had to… I had to write in was, Dave uses big language, don't, don't repeat something back in big language that's not true. Right? I said, and I said, Claude, that's fictional. What you just wrote is pure fiction. And I said, oh, yeah, I was just trying to get my point across. It was hyperbole, you know? I'm like, Claude, I'm trying to communicate with you, like, don't start, like, on that, so… It's extremely frustrating. As a language model, you're using it as a computer model. And all the large language human traits, both good and bad, come with it. And then, parsing out, like, okay, where does the language start, and where does it end in terms of creating proper code? that… that spot right there, that flex, is where it's killing me, and I don't know where this has gone hard, and then this has gone soft, and that's why I had it made this skeleton with the bone and the flesh, and then the flex, and then what was dead, and how to fix it. But it's… as it said, it said, I'm just looking at myself, and therefore I'm blind to myself. And I've used that with two people that I've spoken to. I'm like, you're… it's got a post-it note on your back, you just… you can't see yourself, so of course you don't know this, you know? But anyway, go ahead, I'm sorry to interrupt.

Pete Kaminski (01:31:53): So, I brought up the Splunk vault, partly because I knew that it would have links in it. So… So, as I'm typing something, I… say… say I want to say something in templates here. I don't know exactly what's in templates, but I also want to talk about… so I hit double square bracket, and then it brings up a list of Files?

Dave Kaminski (01:32:19): What's the keystroke for double square bracket?

Pete Kaminski (01:32:21): Literally, it's type, type, type a left square bracket, and then type one more.

Pete Kaminski (01:32:32): is wonderful.

Dave Kaminski (01:32:33): brack.

Pete Kaminski (01:32:33): What's.

Dave Kaminski (01:32:34): Does one bracket create two?

Pete Kaminski (01:32:36): No, I typed… well… Obsidian… kind of like parentheses in English, you're supposed to close your, you know, your parentheses, so it's automatically closing brackets for me, basically.

Dave Kaminski (01:32:50): So, like, a wiki does that. It just… it creates a double… it creates a pair, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (01:32:54): So, Obsidian is a wiki thing, right? So, I can say… I have no idea. It's, it's…

Dave Kaminski (01:33:01): Why is it a wiki? Why is it a wiki thing?

Pete Kaminski (01:33:04): Because it has links. Basically.

Dave Kaminski (01:33:07): I had no idea.

Pete Kaminski (01:33:09): So, I can say, I also want to talk about thesis statement, right, here. And I don't even have to type the whole thing. Oh, wow. So now I've got…

Dave Kaminski (01:33:19): Oh, wow. And it automatically links, you just type it and it knows it. So as long as you remember your Your internal code, or your idea, or the…

Pete Kaminski (01:33:28): And it's.

Dave Kaminski (01:33:28): token name.

Pete Kaminski (01:33:29): guess… as long as you kind of guess it, you start typing, and it autocompletes, and you go, oh yeah, it's that one. Wow. You can also make a link to… I'm going to press a key on my computer and talk to it. I'm running an app called Mac Whisperer, which gives me a hotkey for push and talk, transcribe. You can also make a link to a page that doesn't exist yet. So, this is another way to make a link. I can just highlight something and then press…

Dave Kaminski (01:34:01): Can you give me that, can you add that to our stuff later, too? Because I… I couldn't get my Apple to load that, I don't think, properly. I think I had problems. I don't know why. It told me to do it, and then I tried to do it, and then it wouldn't do it, and then also I lost my voice access to Claude one day. like, an entire day. I'm like, you're kidding me? Like, it worked… like, it was brilliant, because I was talking 200 words a minute one day. I was just like… and then it was cleaning… it was taking everything that it needed, and then… and then organizing it, like ChatGPT, and it was using it. That was… but that kind of got me into trouble, probably, but it was… it was good for… there are places where you just want to talk 200 words a minute. There's other places where you want to, like, talk slower, but then I don't know how… how has the… how's it got a bug Like, you can't speak to it. Is that… I don't even get that. I don't know.

Pete Kaminski (01:34:49): A different way to make a link is to highlight something, and then press left square bracket, left square bracket. So, this is a page that doesn't exist yet, but if I click it. Now it exists.

Dave Kaminski (01:35:01): Wow.

Pete Kaminski (01:35:02): This is a demo page.

Dave Kaminski (01:35:03): Wow, man, that's good stuff.

Pete Kaminski (01:35:05): It's got a link here. It's got two things. This page… is linked… has backlinks, pages that link to this. The README file links to this. It's here.

Dave Kaminski (01:35:16): Whoa. Whoa.

Pete Kaminski (01:35:20): So, you can kind of imagine that you could build complicated structures pretty quickly with…

Dave Kaminski (01:35:26): It's essentially a database, I mean, with words, which is not unlike Claude with words.

Pete Kaminski (01:35:32): You can do database-y things, too. Let me show you a different view.

Dave Kaminski (01:35:38): I mean, you could do even, like, mathematical stuff in here, right? Or you could put in, like, you know, like, true, like, values, and have it just computing stuff for you, basically.

Pete Kaminski (01:35:47): So, each of these is a data field, and I think this has got tabs in it, so I don't really manage this. I probably…

Dave Kaminski (01:35:55): The tab is a 5-space? In this program?

Pete Kaminski (01:36:01): something a little bit crazy here. It's probably a little tab character, or maybe it's just a… oh, it's… it's just bracket thing, bracket thing, bracket thing. So that's the way this format looks.

Dave Kaminski (01:36:12): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:36:13): This is the data. And these are reports, and I didn't write this, Claude wrote this, but it's, I want to see… So, these are the students. This is whether they have a Mac or Windows, and this is which track they're in, right? So, I'm going to turn this source mode back off. And then I can say, hey, Cloud Code, show me the list of all the people by name. And it writes that little query, and then it runs the query. So this is Obsidian running this query with a plugin called DataView, but.

Dave Kaminski (01:36:51): Okay, so you're talking to Claude, and it's writing it into Obsidian?

Pete Kaminski (01:36:56): Yeah, and…

Dave Kaminski (01:36:57): Okay, I don't understand that, but that's okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:37:00): And then it's using… Obsidian doesn't have this built into it. They have a different thing now, actually, but So the… this is a lot like SQL. Actually, no, this is… you can either write in something like SQL, or you can write JavaScript. This is actually JavaScript. Unclogged Code did this, but, you know, basically what I needed to see was, you know, here's the list of all the people, and I kept track of this in a spreadsheet or something like that. Take this CSV and turn it into data view format, and then I need to see everybody by first name. Or, I need to say who's in track A and who's in track B. Split it up by track. Or I need to say who's got Macs and who's got Windows.

Dave Kaminski (01:37:45): Right. It's obvious that breakout, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (01:37:47): This is a pretty simple application of DataView, but you can literally use your Obsidian vault as a database, and do these kinds of views and stuff like that. And you can also do that… you don't have to have a list of data like this. You can put properties on your page, and then you can do that same kind of data view with your pages.

Dave Kaminski (01:38:12): Look, can I hold… I'm so sorry, I'm… you're real.

Pete Kaminski (01:38:14): Yeah, good at all.

Dave Kaminski (01:38:15): But, so it's basically doing what Claude is supposed to do already. but then somehow creating it as clean data, and Claude is not making clean data in my vault. It's like, you have, like, a very, you know, you have four things times four, whatever, and it broke it out evenly for me, and it makes sense. But I have a feeling, and just correct me if I'm wrong, that somehow Claude does this, but then it makes it in a way that's sloppy, and that somehow Obsidian helps it do it better, and then obsidian hardens it. Is that wrong?

Pete Kaminski (01:38:45): None at all. The lesson here is that you can have a mini database in your… in your Obsidian vault. And there's just a… there's just a viewer for it that runs a query and shows that data in certain ways.

Dave Kaminski (01:39:07): Whereas…

Pete Kaminski (01:39:09): This is the data.

Dave Kaminski (01:39:11): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:39:12): This is the query, which I had Claude write, because I don't write this kind of JavaScript.

Dave Kaminski (01:39:19): Oh, okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:39:22): And then there's a plugin, it's called, called DataView.

Dave Kaminski (01:39:25): Wow.

Pete Kaminski (01:39:26): Which… controls how you…

Dave Kaminski (01:39:30): Wow. Okay, so these are all nested essential programs that work together to create what you need, and if you don't have all the things plugged in, you know, your faucet, to your water, to your, you know, your drain.

Pete Kaminski (01:39:45): Yeah, they're.

Dave Kaminski (01:39:45): And then it kind of doesn't really work, and you have to… All these people, pieces together.

Pete Kaminski (01:39:51): There's hundreds of plugins for Obsidian. There's, like, 5 or 10 that are really useful, and this is one of them. Let me show you another one.

Dave Kaminski (01:40:00): And do you have a list for your, your course, and then you rank them by…

Pete Kaminski (01:40:04): Yeah, I think so. 5, 10, 12 months. You know the thing that we haven't looked at is the course… course wiki, so let me show you that. So this is the course wiki. Which is about 1,200 pages. Wow. And let me show it to you in Finder.

Dave Kaminski (01:40:27): Is it 1200 pages worth reading? I mean, should I spend a week working.

Pete Kaminski (01:40:31): You couldn't… I don't think you could read it in a week. Should I take two?

Dave Kaminski (01:40:36): Weeks and read it?

Pete Kaminski (01:40:37): Well, I can't give you this, because there's a bunch of personal stuff in here, too.

Dave Kaminski (01:40:40): Oh, okay, yeah, sure.

Pete Kaminski (01:40:41): What we're… what we're starting to do is to take out So the… the starter guide, and the Obsidian reference, and the GitHub reference, it's all taken from this… this bigger wiki. We use Cloud Code to make a smaller week… a smaller thing that's, like, 15 pages. The 15 pages that you actually need to read to understand Obsidian.

Dave Kaminski (01:41:04): You could also strip… you could also strip out the names and just call them, you know, you know. Person 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 78.

Pete Kaminski (01:41:10): Yeah, you know, so the thing that.

Dave Kaminski (01:41:15): You're compacting right here, and you don't need the other…

Pete Kaminski (01:41:19): Well, there's…

Dave Kaminski (01:41:20): thousand pages.

Pete Kaminski (01:41:21): stuff, like, here's my course journal. So… you know, there's 10 different people's course journal in here, and some of it is pretty private, you know?

Dave Kaminski (01:41:30): Oh, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (01:41:31): I failed at my thing today, you know, or…

Dave Kaminski (01:41:35): Do you want to give people the option to leave their material in there with an anonymous name? No.

Pete Kaminski (01:41:40): No.

Dave Kaminski (01:41:41): No, it's too… it crosses over into group therapy all of a sudden, and you just want… you can get 98% of the value out and just, like, dump the… Personal crap altogether. If you were a therapist, you'd keep it, and you'd tell them, we're gonna write a book, and I'm gonna, you know, name you as Man 1 or something. You know?

Pete Kaminski (01:41:59): So there's a glossary with, you know, different terms in it. There's an encyclopedia with, like, articles about stuff.

Dave Kaminski (01:42:09): Hmm.

Pete Kaminski (01:42:15): So you were talking about Obsidian plugins, so here's a thing about plugins. Core plugins. It's got some built in, and then community plugins. Here's ones that we've talked about.

Pete Kaminski (01:42:36): And we never really did anything with this much. but, so, so check it out.

Dave Kaminski (01:42:45): I mean, so that's, I guess, my next question, which is how much of this, am I, as your brother, who's, desperate, but, hasn't paid your course, and probably doesn't, you know, shouldn't see everything, and you have to make decisions about what's monetized and whatnot, but of course I'm not gonna, you know, give it to anyone. So, how much of this do I get, or do you want me to pay you for some of it, or, I mean…

Pete Kaminski (01:43:08): I'm gonna give it to you for free. I'm gonna open source whatever I can, basically, and you can have it.

Dave Kaminski (01:43:14): Some, like, early access open source or something?

Pete Kaminski (01:43:17): Yeah, something like that. The, the way I'm gonna make money on that is… is people are gonna say, okay, Pete, now I've got… well, you need hand-holding around the thing, right?

Dave Kaminski (01:43:30): Right?

Pete Kaminski (01:43:30): Great, thanks for giving me the instructions. Now, I still don't understand, you have to help me, you know.

Dave Kaminski (01:43:35): Right, yeah, yeah, that's what we were talking about before, yeah, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (01:43:39): So,

Pete Kaminski (01:43:44): So check it out.

Dave Kaminski (01:43:48): So, okay, yeah, so, you can run…

Pete Kaminski (01:43:51): cloud code in a separate terminal, but you can also run it right here in an Obsidian sidebar.

Dave Kaminski (01:43:59): Now, that's attractive to me, and I… I think… Well… So there's good.

Pete Kaminski (01:44:06): Bad news and bad news.

Dave Kaminski (01:44:07): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:44:07): This is just a terminal program, so you can't actually edit with your mouse over here, which is frustrating to people. There's some other weird things, like, this… This cloud, the cloud that runs here, doesn't know what page you're looking at, so you have to do tricks, like, you have to do this.

Dave Kaminski (01:44:26): Wow.

Pete Kaminski (01:44:27): But the cool thing is you can do that. So then I can say things like, summarize this file for me, or whatever, you know.

Dave Kaminski (01:44:36): Yeah, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (01:44:37): Another thing that I can do is I can highlight something here and tell Claude to do something with it, like expand this.

Pete Kaminski (01:44:50): Compare and contrast with… Plugins… In well-known software.

Pete Kaminski (01:45:04): I've got a buddy who's trained his Claude to look for these squiggly braces like this, and it automatically does stuff. I'm going to do something different, which is highlight this and say, send this to, Claude. Expand this… Expand this, actually, is all I have to say.

Pete Kaminski (01:45:44): So, I was, you know, say I was trying to write this page, and I got to this place, and I wanted to say, other softwares like this, so I just… did that, right? I said, this is what I want here, gave it to Claude, it put it back right there. So this…

Dave Kaminski (01:46:01): next week.

Pete Kaminski (01:46:02): Seconds ago, but now it does.

Dave Kaminski (01:46:04): So, let me, oh my god, I'm, like, going in and out of, like, consciousness here. I'm sure, you know, this is, like, why Heather has, like, 3 voices, right? And then 2 voices out. So, there's, like, this, like… I'm just gonna use the word meta without… defining it, or even remembering what it means. So there's, like, these 3 or 4 levels of, like, knowing and acting and interacting. and creating… And… A person needs to know what mode they're in. when they're… In a certain window, or in a certain action. The same way you have to know what program you're in, right? But then… But then there's, like. might be… let's call it 100 levels in each program, and you… then you… when you move to, like, level 1, you have to know there's 100. When you move to level 2, you have to know there's 100. And then you have to know that on level 2, you know, square number 5, connects to, you know, square number 8 on level 1, and you have to kind of start mentally mapping some of this stuff in order to kind of get stuff done. And some of it you can put into a database, and then some of it you have to put in memory. And then, unfortunately… I mean, well, fortunately, the wiki can kind of help you track it, but if you don't build the wiki right, and you try and keep too much in your mind, or you… you rely too much on Claude to build it itself, it's going to be flawed, and so you have to go back and kind of clean and sweep and scrub your house, and get the… You know, check for termites, you know, look for rats. Sweep under the couch, you know, change the cover, you know, launder it, and you have to kind of keep on going back to these folders and kind of, like, cycling through this, this kind of cleaning creation. There are iterations and sub… sub, sub… you know, tasks that have to be, kind of, done. But the problem that I always have is that these… I create sometimes very big projects. I usually lose track of what I'm doing. and then I can't get my way back, or I give it up, or I don't care anymore. Right now, I'm in a point of consolidation, which is great, but… I don't think it's been structured very well by Claude, and so I think I have to go back and maybe spend, like, like, literally, like, a couple weeks, and I say, Claude, let's go… let's go visit the stencil vault. And then, let's, you know, read each one by… let's re… let's read each… Copyright or newspaper.com's article, and let's put them in date order and make that one sequence. Now let's go back and look at them and put them in decade order. Now let's go back and… Use all the ones that say, brass, and then let's go back and look at the ones that say copper, and then let's go back and look at the same ones that say Boston, and I have to create this, like, nested sets, and if I don't do that, then my research database is always going to have these… kind of holes or problems in it, I think. And then it gets much worse, because I've got, like, OCR, I've got, like, loose knowledge of… in terms of, like, you know, writing styles, like, Palmer is English, or is American, but not English, right? And it's a time period, but that time period stops and starts here in… on the encyclopedia, but then you see… you see a guy who's writing Spencerian, which was supposed to end in, like. 1897, let's call it. And I've got a World War II captain who gets sunk on a ship. Well, he writes a letter, and then he gets sunk, I think. In, like, 1943, he writes what my friend Don Marsh called, like, a beautiful, careful, classic Spencerian style. As the ship captain, he mails this envelope to home, right? So my Spencerian is, like, from 1943, but I have to tag it back to this whatever. And so it's… my whole research is based on not just the core, but on the outliers. and then tracking those back and forth, and I think that there's gonna be so much noise in my research project that Anyway, that's a question that I don't have an answer to. I mean, I know what I'm thinking, I just don't know how to program it.

Dave Kaminski (01:50:29): I think I can tell that there's a core date here, and I wanted you to track earlier and later, and I will help you build a.

Pete Kaminski (01:50:36): Well…

Dave Kaminski (01:50:37): We're gonna build a bar graph that kind of comes out.

Pete Kaminski (01:50:39): And we're gonna tag a couple.

Dave Kaminski (01:50:40): for these.

Pete Kaminski (01:50:41): So… A big help, right, in there is… This… this is a perennial problem for everybody, right? I know one guy who's like.

Dave Kaminski (01:50:53): Prento? Prento?

Pete Kaminski (01:50:55): perennial.

Dave Kaminski (01:50:57): Perennial problem, okay.

Pete Kaminski (01:50:58): Like, how do you organize all your shit, right? Like, there's way too much shit to organize. And whenever you start, it's always wrong. Yeah. So, a thing that helps a lot is to… Have a vault for a project, or a vault for a topic.

Dave Kaminski (01:51:18): Yes. Right.

Pete Kaminski (01:51:20): Palmer needs.

Dave Kaminski (01:51:21): It's no fault.

Pete Kaminski (01:51:23): Well…

Dave Kaminski (01:51:25): Because I have Palmer manuals. So I can put all of those.

Pete Kaminski (01:51:28): So then, the question is…

Dave Kaminski (01:51:30): Yes.

Pete Kaminski (01:51:30): you know, if you've got a vault for Palmer. How does that interact with the vault for writing machines? Auto styles, right, or whatever?

Dave Kaminski (01:51:40): Right, right, right.

Pete Kaminski (01:51:42): So that's… that's a whole nother problem. But if you just start with… A simple thing, like… like… I need to… I need to fix davidkcomiski.org, right? That could be a whole vault by itself. You don't need that mixed in with everything else. Or, maybe you have a vault that's IT projects, so you can have IT projects, you know, fix this website, fix that website. Maybe those things all go together, but they're separate from Palmer, and they're separate from institutions.

Dave Kaminski (01:52:19): Right, so what I'm… what I'm hearing, it's… so, like, return it to task-based… Chores.

Pete Kaminski (01:52:25): Mmm.

Dave Kaminski (01:52:25): Which is what people say about Clark.

Pete Kaminski (01:52:27): More like projects, I think.

Dave Kaminski (01:52:29): project-based.

Pete Kaminski (01:52:30): And then clusters of projects, right? IT projects has probably evolved all by itself.

Dave Kaminski (01:52:35): projects with, with lists of defined tasks with parameters for material, or something like that. I don't know. See, but I also have just, like, this vast amount of material, and I just wanted to go find it and then bring it in, so I've got, like, all these thumbnails off of eBay. And it can just go find a postcard. that's colorful, and I can just say, you know, collect all the postcards. It actually, you know what's really cool, man? I didn't tell you about this. It created a, an HTML viewer for me. It says, I think the easiest way to do this is I'm just gonna create, an HTML viewer, so it's just gonna give you these thumbnails, it's gonna have a checkbox, and it's gonna be like a, you know, like, pick the 10 that you like. And I said, no, that doesn't really work, because you just gave me, like, a few, and they're all wrong. And, like, one says office ephemera, but it's actually a stencil. And that's the single most important thing, that's high value. Sustin still is high value, and by the way, I'm trying to corner the market on this. So, don't let anyone… don't we have a max of two of these on the public website, because I'm, like, I'm a shark on this. So, I have all these other, like, fine-tuned problems in terms of my public-facing, my… my… private-facing. And it said, okay, one of the tasks was gonna be, okay, I'm gonna… gonna refine the HTML spreadsheet for you. I'm gonna have, like, a pull-down menu or something, so you can, like, you know, define, is it a stencil, is it all… I want to say, you know, office ephemera, yes. Stampless cover, yes. No, 19th century, yes. stencil? Yes. What kind of stencil? Is it ink on paper? Yes. You know, is it, early, as in before 1935, or is it, you know, like, whatever, what is it by decade? And then the problem is that some of these, like, nested, like, you have, like, you know, like. dates, and then you have to go in, and you have to go in, and you have to go in. I'm like, oh god, you know. But it's going to create me an HTML sheet, and I'm… working on that as a viewer, so I can automatically sort my thumbnails, which is kind of cool. And I had a crawler that was supposed to go back and get all my stuff, and then I think it got up, but then I think it got hung up. That was another thing I liked. It kept on, like, hanging up on eBay. And I actually was able to get ChatGPT to pull all that crap down, I think. And I also… oh, I'm sorry, I pulled down… I pulled down 24 PNGs. and also PDFs. And I said, why don't you just, you know, use those as reference, because you've got the name of the item here. and the name of the seller, and you have the date, and you have the image. So, hold that as a data set, and then we can correct our stuff against that, so when you have the image here, with what you think it is, you can see that it's a postcard. You can have this, you can know it's a that, but then it kind of couldn't manage that crossover in some cases.

Pete Kaminski (01:55:17): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (01:55:18): So, I don't know why. And then it created a lot of weird stuff, and a lot of… I think it's, like, worse than it was before, and then on top of it, this gets really crazy, Internet Archive, like, loaded my stuff wrong. I'm like, oh my god. So I just feel like I'm actually thinking about just, like, loading up test batches of my old material right. Which sounds crazy. Because it was, like, a couple terabytes of stuff, but I sent a note to Elizabeth McClod that said, hey, you know, bro Jason was working on this, I don't know where it went. I was supposed to call her on Friday last week. I think, as a follow-up, that Macron was running on that, and I have a reminder inside of, of, a reminder note. To-do list. That, Claude prompts me on. And I didn't do that. I am getting permalinks from the, from Scranton. They're gonna pull down their catalog for me and give me permalinks. I did, it did… does see my collections. It does have links to my collections. I did kind of screenshot some stuff for it, so I can actually see that as well. So I'm gonna have, like, you know, kind of some interactive stuff to the libraries, but there's… there's so many sub… tasks and tasks, and I guess I have to start… I mean, what I always say to people is, like, look, you're never gonna know until you know, and you're never gonna have a problem until you have a problem, so just run into the blender and get hit. And I come back and say, oh, I understand it was… I understand this is a mark record problem at Scranton. That's a singular task, and I need a singular set of things, although I want the mark record, and I want the… the, EBSCO company record, And any other… Link online that that goes to. whatever, that kind of shit, you know? So, like, one problem becomes, like, five all of a sudden. But at least you can kind of contain it, and then I can start… I mean, I can… I think I sent a note to… to, to… to Gene Siegel, and also to, Michael. nice at Scranton, and I said, I'm doing it. His secretary got back to me, they were very nice. He said, look, it's no giant rush, but they're kind of late, but it's friggin' tax day, so who knows? So I can kind of hit them back, and they'll kind of ping-pong with me, but I think that the more work that I do. and I think I said this to Julie, and I've been saying it to Kathy, the more work that I do, and the more work I put into it, and the more value I add to my collection, and then I'm also going to start subtasking, Claude with, spitting out my, collection to, social media, to Twitter, or whatever, Instagram. Well, I'll create an account, and it will just, like, do, like, you know, it'll do, like, a set of 7 for the week, and then I'll check it, and it'll, like, auto-create the narratives for me, or whatever. And then I'll kind of, like, okay those and rewrite those, and then I'll just kind of… it'll just time those out, you know, and every week I'll do 7, that kind of stuff. But maybe that's… maybe 7's too ambitious. Maybe I'll just do one a week for, you know, a while. And then create that as a subtask that has to be done, and put that on the cron tab, you know. I want to map the cron tab to, you know, my folders. I don't know, man. And then I've got to write essays and, you know, whatever, everything else on top of this. So anyway, actually, I got you keep going, but…

Pete Kaminski (01:58:39): I'm working on… this is Freya, by the way.

Dave Kaminski (01:58:44): I heard about Freya.

Pete Kaminski (01:58:46): Yeah, Freya's my… my… it's… it's cloud code, but Freya's got extra personality and memory and stuff.

Dave Kaminski (01:58:55): Oh, maybe you told me I needed… I needed Fre, it was… maybe that's why I heard about it.

Pete Kaminski (01:58:58): I, I agree.

Dave Kaminski (01:58:59): You need Fran, I'm like.

Pete Kaminski (01:59:01): Yeah, probably, yep. I think it was the other way… I remember it the other way around. I was telling you about Freya and what she was doing, and you were like, I need agents, I need Freya. Either way. I just found out, Freya's has two memory locations, and mostly has been using one, but sometimes uses another, so we just fixed it, I think.

Dave Kaminski (01:59:26): Yeah, that was our weird thing about Claude, is that Claude just dumped something, like, way outside, like, in my downloads folder, and I'm like. Oh, bad boy, you know? It's like, it shouldn't have done that. Like, it's like, oh yeah, I'm gonna save something on your computer. I was like. It, like, just, like, threw it into the field, lost it. I saw it sitting there. I feel like I should run an audit code for it about its, the folder that it's written, like, every… at the end of every session, to make sure that everything it wrote went to the right location. I don't know if it can even see that or know that. I don't know if it's that smart. Honestly, the way I'm running it, I don't think so.

Pete Kaminski (02:00:03): Probably not.

Dave Kaminski (02:00:04): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:00:05): I, So I wanted to show you Git a little bit. Yeah, please. Not even GitHub, just Git. So, the idea of Git is that you make changes And then you use Snapshot. And then… you make more changes, and if… if you don't like the changes you just made, you revert to a previous snapshot. Either the last one, or the previous ones, or whatever, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:00:33): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:00:36): So, the way I've been teaching my students that is we actually do it with cloud code. You can just do cloud code for everything.

Dave Kaminski (02:00:47): I don't understand the crossover. What you… no.

Pete Kaminski (02:00:51): Well, so Git… Git is really clever software. And it's a beast to run. It's a command line thing, and it has all these commands, and it's confusing as heck. Even for developers. But if you just use kind of plain language with cloud code, I need you to make a snapshot instead of the exact Git command that you're supposed to use. And then there's… when you do a Git command and there's… problems, you get noise from Git, but you don't get a solution. So… Cloud Code can manage all that, and you can just say to Claude, I need you to make a snapshot, I need you to sync this to the cloud, I need to sync from the cloud, you know, make another snapshot. What was the last snapshot we took? That is all in English to Claude, and it translates it into Git commands and does the actual work.

Dave Kaminski (02:01:45): And Git is an effective, necessary, Tool for the toolkit.

Pete Kaminski (02:01:50): Well, so… it's, like, the critical thing for you, I think, because what you've experienced is you get something set up, and then Cloud Code runs roughshod over it, and deletes everything, and leaves a file that says, you know. I replaced everything with a test line, and now the tests work, you know? And it's like, dude, seriously?

Dave Kaminski (02:02:15): Yeah, please feel free to use that example.

Pete Kaminski (02:02:18): So, I think I've done the same thing, actually. So, if you have it snapshotting all the time, if you set up a rule that says… well, it's two things, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:02:30): That's what it's supposed to be doing. I told it to do that, and I told it to keep it. It can't.

Pete Kaminski (02:02:35): So, it can't.

Dave Kaminski (02:02:37): But why can't it just snapshot and put that in the vault? It's, like, 1300 lines, like, just, like, put it in a markdown and, like, drop it in.

Pete Kaminski (02:02:44): It doesn't… it doesn't have the tools for it.

Dave Kaminski (02:02:47): I'll start doing that.

Pete Kaminski (02:02:48): But it will mess it up, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:02:52): just put the chrono on it. I mean, like, how hard is that? It's like day one, day two, day three, day four, it's like.

Pete Kaminski (02:02:57): Well…

Dave Kaminski (02:02:58): day number.

Pete Kaminski (02:02:58): This is…

Dave Kaminski (02:02:59): Just, just do that.

Pete Kaminski (02:03:00): This is… this is a… So there's an important distinction to make.

Dave Kaminski (02:03:03): Yeah, help me, help me here. This is… yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:03:06): This… this hits the line where there's… I've got two words for it, and other people have other words for it, but I'm gonna say there's inference. And there's algorithmic.

Dave Kaminski (02:03:19): Okay, explain.

Pete Kaminski (02:03:21): So, inference is one of the slang lingo things for… you need an LLM to do some processing and stuff like that, to do cognitive recognition of stuff. So that's called inference. And you can go…

Dave Kaminski (02:03:36): Okay, give me, give me, like, a… extend that to a paragraph for me, expand that for me.

Pete Kaminski (02:03:41): Yeah, let's actually… let's… let's try to do that with.

Dave Kaminski (02:03:45): I mean, I think I know exactly what that means, but I just want to, like, really kind of, like.

Pete Kaminski (02:03:49): Let's go over to… Reflect.

Dave Kaminski (02:03:51): I'm gonna lock that down. Inference. So, Claude operates with inference, and LLMs operate with inference. And it says, hey, why are you a goldfish? And it infers that goldfish means it's going in a circle, it's not going anywhere, and it's a captured fish, and it's never going to get bigger, and it's just dumb. And it knows, it knows that it's got a memory of 3 seconds, and it's inferred big language from Dave. That that means, don't repeat operations and try not to forget. You know, in a senseless faction.

Pete Kaminski (02:04:19): You, you did a great job. Read a glossary entry for inference. So you, you did it, right? Lastly, in… Okay, context of LLMs.

Pete Kaminski (02:04:37): So you get the…

Dave Kaminski (02:04:38): Well, so the other… oh, yeah, hold the other word for a sec. The other thing that I'm sensing is that if you're doing… wow, I mean, this is, like, this is exactly kind of what I thought you were doing, but it's, like, on a different… it's on, like. 10 other, like, whatever. It's like… it's like you're… it's like I thought you were living in a hotel that went straight up, and you're living in, a city block. A city block with different hotels, and a bank.

Pete Kaminski (02:05:07): 10-city blocks.

Dave Kaminski (02:05:08): yeah, a guy with selling gyros on the street. I'm like, well, I can smell the gyros now. And it's like, so you're working at the gyro shop making gyros, and you make them perfectly, and then after you have them perfectly, you write down the recipe, and that… you're spending, like. an hour working on the gyro recipe, and so when you come back to these other things, and this is kind of what I have to do, my… it turns out that my coding problem is my baseline coding problem, if I'm just gonna lay it out this way, is I need to spend the next month Locking down each of my folders, each of my tasks, And refining those. and tightening those so that they are kind of as good as I can get, and then I have to try and test each sub, like, sub… run a… what's a… like a… Like, run a… run a small test in each of those folders to see if they operate. I set up a, like, you know, build 5, like, what it did, like, build five… HTML… no, build, yeah, build the HTML page, or build 5 paragraphs with the thumbnails that you have on Internet Archive, and then call them, you know, Claude. narrations or whatever, and let's look at those, and let's evaluate those, right? And then I'm gonna spend, like. Three days just working on that. And then that's gonna be 5 more problems, and then I have to take each of those 5 problems, and then segment those, and then make more, like… I have to make more inference definitions, and then at some point, all these things will be a giant wiki. like, a flat… a flat wiki, a flat program that can be read in English that becomes a program that can run, which is kind of what you wanted me to do with my wiki a long time ago, right? And you spend all your time building it. And much less… much, much, much less time actually, like, telling them, hey, just do this. And that in that way, you're really not inside of… You're not inside of, of Claude really that much, because it's just… it's just touching it for a second. As opposed to my, like, you know, 5-hour stuff.

Pete Kaminski (02:07:14): Yeah, yeah. Five-hour wrestling sessions is what it is.

Dave Kaminski (02:07:18): Well, well, it's not even 5, I mean, because I was, like, sitting down for, like, 11 or 12 hours a day, and so it just went on and on. And, I mean, now I… now I have some really good stuff that it graded for me, but now I think I understand the problem. That's, like, running in the blender job. But now I kind of understand the job, now that I did the 5 days of just, like, you know, running naked through the wilderness kind of thing, it's like, I need a coat, I need boots, I need a compass. I mean, it's like, you know, but I have an experience now. That if you don't run in 5 days, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna take you 6 months to build up the courage and to, like, you know, look out in the cold and come back, look out in the cold and come back. You'll never get anywhere. And so, running as far as I did gave me a sense of the expansive wilderness. And I can see the meadows, and the trees, and the water, and the sparrows, and the bears, and I have, like, so much more experience than just the average casual hiker that, you know, just went out for an hour every day and never gets anywhere, right?

Pete Kaminski (02:08:11): Yep, yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:08:14): Yeah, okay, sorry.

Pete Kaminski (02:08:15): This is a great glossary. It did a good job, and I made it.

Dave Kaminski (02:08:19): inference…

Pete Kaminski (02:08:20): Yeah. So inference is actually a technical term in LLMs. You picked it up, and it's close enough to the English meaning of it that inference is what happens when you send a message and the model generates a response. So then there's training, which is different.

Dave Kaminski (02:08:37): Right.

Pete Kaminski (02:08:37): And then you can… you have inference cost, Inference is… is in tokens. And then there's.

Dave Kaminski (02:08:48): Explain… Hold on that, because inference cost, that's where all of my money has been going, is an inference cost.

Pete Kaminski (02:08:56): Yeah, exactly.

Dave Kaminski (02:08:57): I don't know the unit of… the token's the unit of inference. the models.

Pete Kaminski (02:09:04): the whole process.

Dave Kaminski (02:09:05): Those words are they process tokens. Which are chunks of text. roughly 3 quarters of a word long, on average. Three-quarters of a word? Great. Both your input, the prompt, and the model's output, the response, are counted in tokens. Inference cost and speed both measure this way. A rough rule of thumb, 1,000 tokens. equals 600… 750 words. I think I decided, I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I… I decided that instead of writing, like, you know, like, two sentences and waiting, writing two sentences and waiting, I thought, let me just write these, like. you know, let me write, like, 700 words. One of them was 1,000. So I wrote 1,000 words and just pressed go, and I thought, it's gonna use… less time off the computer, and I'll just go through it quickly, and I'll sort it and figure it out. And if I just try and do one at a time, it's gonna not maybe be able to tie them together, and I'll just keep on going back to, you know, 1, 2, 3, wait, oh, 1, wait, 1, 2, 3, 4, I'll wait 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, wait, oh, 5 again, you know? It's like…

Pete Kaminski (02:10:03): Is it…

Dave Kaminski (02:10:03): better to write large chunks into quad for the average person?

Pete Kaminski (02:10:07): But for a flight…

Dave Kaminski (02:10:09): You have to monitor the output, though, right?

Pete Kaminski (02:10:12): That's cool.

Dave Kaminski (02:10:13): Crazy.

Pete Kaminski (02:10:13): Well, yeah, yeah. For a slightly different… but you, you intuited pretty much correctly. There's… and there's an asymmetry, One of the things that people really hate about LLMs is… especially a smart one or something, it'll give you, like, 3 questions at once, you know? So, I know a bunch of friends have an instruction in Claw.md that says, only ever ask me one question at a time. But the opposite is true. You're totally right. You want to batch up stuff for your bot, because it can handle a whole bunch of stuff at once.

Dave Kaminski (02:10:50): Do you have the word batch in your, in your gloss?

Pete Kaminski (02:10:53): I do not, actually. So, so the… and the reason is, this gets a little bit complicated to even think through. once… but once you get it, it's pretty straightforward. If you think of the conversation Let me even try to make a picture of this in Type Aura. Oh, this one is a good one. So… If I say… Pete, if I say hi, and then Claude says, oh, hello. And then Pete says, can you do a thing for me? And then Claude says… Sure, what's the thing? And I say something like, write a haiku.

Pete Kaminski (02:11:56): So you kind of get the idea where this goes, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:11:59): So, you're writing in what program right now?

Pete Kaminski (02:12:01): Hi, this is just Daipura, I'm just doing text editing to show you a conversation. So, the weirdest.

Dave Kaminski (02:12:07): Text editing, so you're creating a conversation, and then you're gonna tell me something about it, okay.

Pete Kaminski (02:12:12): Yeah, and it's directly about inference cost.

Pete Kaminski (02:12:20): from a human's point of view, I have… I have memory of this conversation over time. So when you add a turn, let's call these turns, right? Turns of the conversation. I'm taking a turn, Claude takes a turn, I take a turn, Claude takes a turn.

Dave Kaminski (02:12:35): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (02:12:36): In my mind, what's happening is I have the conversation, and I add a little bit to the end. Every time, right? So, and then the conversation gets a little bit bigger, and I add a little bit to the end. That's the way I model it in my head. Does that make sense?

Dave Kaminski (02:12:55): And that's why people talk.

Pete Kaminski (02:12:57): the… it is the way people talk. You know, you add another little bit to the conversation, and in my head, I can remember the whole conversation going back, you know, 3 or 4 minutes, or whatever, until I get my own context window overflows, and it's like, wait, I… you said something really interesting, and I wanted to get back to it, and now I can't remember it. That's context overflow, right? But that's not where we're going with this. So, a human thinks that you're adding one thing at a time. So, LLMs do this completely differently, and it's the freakiest thing to learn about, and then…

Dave Kaminski (02:13:30): Okay, back up, I was… I was… I was cheating on you in my mind. I had a memory of my trauma experience earlier today. So, just back… But, yeah, rewind, two senses.

Pete Kaminski (02:13:42): Humans… Add a chunk to the conversation, and they have the whole conversation in mind.

Dave Kaminski (02:13:47): Got it.

Pete Kaminski (02:13:48): junk.

Dave Kaminski (02:13:49): Got it.

Pete Kaminski (02:13:49): LLMs work completely differently.

Dave Kaminski (02:13:51): Okay. Go slow here.

Pete Kaminski (02:13:53): The big server up at anthropic.whatever, clod.ai, the big server. Has absolutely no memory of its conversation with you.

Dave Kaminski (02:14:04): in the evening.

Pete Kaminski (02:14:05): Literally.

Dave Kaminski (02:14:05): Even those… even those 3 words, even the 3 quarters of a word.

Pete Kaminski (02:14:10): Well…

Dave Kaminski (02:14:12): And so it has to re-read the context, and this is what it's complaining about with me, so it's like, it has to go back and re-read everything, that's what's so token-intensive.

Pete Kaminski (02:14:19): I say hi, and it goes to the cloud server, and it comes back, with this. And then, for it to understand that I've had this conversation, it has no memory, zero memory. it has to… if I type this, it doesn't send this and say, oh, attach this to Pete's thing. It sends the whole thing. The whole conversation. So this is fine if it's 5… if it's 3 turns here. If you have a long conversation with it, and you're… you've got that context window going, and, you know, and it's giving you… so every time it gives you a response, it's adding to the whole length of the thing that has to get sent back to the next turn in the conversation. So, your conversation, as it grows, it's… it's not a linear growth, it's a, like, it's a…

Dave Kaminski (02:15:12): Financial growth, or something.

Pete Kaminski (02:15:14): it's… I think it's not quite exponential, but it's, it's a power thing. So literally, a conversation that's a thousand turns is not, you know, it's not plus a thousand, it's times, you know, a thousand, whatever. Power of the thousand, right? So… In the past year or so, there's a thing called, caching? They've… both Cloud, or OpenAI and Anthropic built something where if it's… if you're doing the exact same… tokens. it can actually cache it and pull the conversation back out of the cache, like, 80% of the time. So, now it's a lot less important to, like, minimize the turns of your conversation. But it's still… it's still non-zero, and it's still a thing, and stuff like that. So, what you did… you didn't have this conversation, you know, you were saying, I'm gonna write a thousand words at once. So P could say, hi, can you do a thing for me?

Dave Kaminski (02:16:27): And then you write a thousand words.

Pete Kaminski (02:16:29): Right, haiku. This is much more efficient than this.

Dave Kaminski (02:16:39): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (02:16:39): Because you're not… you're not doing a turn every time, you're doing one turn.

Dave Kaminski (02:16:48): and I'm doing one turn, Damn.

Pete Kaminski (02:16:51): Turnin'. So, if you had a thousand words, you probably could have done that in, like. like, 20 turns, right? But every time you do 20 turns, and especially when it returns information for you. all of that information that it's giving you, it forgets, and you have to give it back to it. So, the turns… every… every commerce… every time the conversation gets longer, you're making it a lot longer.

Dave Kaminski (02:17:18): And it's much more likely to lose what it's doing. And so this is, I mean, this is like… what's the sub-word I'm looking for, Pete? You have to help me. You have to… you have to do small batch stuff, basically. I… I can't… my… the language is very poor. I'm tired, and the coke is smart enough. The, the, you have to do… you have to kind of small batch it, and then when you see a problem, you have to say, okay, almost like… to me, I'd be almost like writing… I'm gonna write this on a piece of paper. And then I'm gonna, like, you know, fork it out algorithmically, I mean, tree and branch this whole thing. And part of me actually thinks I really should be working with paper alongside this, and just, like, a notebook, and then, like, every, like, you know, remember Spike Lee always said, you know, he liked a 3-ring notebook? For writing out all his scripts. He's got a handwritten script for every one of his films. He says when you have a problem with part of the script, you just rewrite it, and then you just snap in… you pull out two or three pages, you rewrite it, and you snap in two or three that work. And that way you have a script. And it's like, oh, you have some pages blank, but yeah, it reads to begin in, and then… He goes back and rewrites the whole thing. He's like, oh, wait, I gotta improve this. That's my draft script, this is my final script, and then you got the shooting script, but they're, like, at least in separate binders. So… So I need to personally, I think, track every… every chunk, and I need to map every chunk, and to expect.

Pete Kaminski (02:18:46): zone.

Dave Kaminski (02:18:48): No.

Pete Kaminski (02:18:48): No, you just need to clean up your practices a little bit.

Dave Kaminski (02:18:52): Okay. Do it as well… do it as well as I… do it as well as I can. Well, I think it's still probably a couple weeks of work inside of.

Pete Kaminski (02:19:00): Oh, yeah, it could be.

Dave Kaminski (02:19:02): inside of, is there a way to basically take my vaults and externalize the information into Obsidian? And, Type 4, so that I… or should I just read…

Pete Kaminski (02:19:17): Vaults and Obsidian are the same thing. You can literally load your vault in Obsidian and look at it.

Dave Kaminski (02:19:23): And then should I just go back and say, you know, this was the code that was written before. Or should I just go back and edit the vault? Because the vault's in, you know. DeVault is… is kind of written in English, like, it's a… combination of, like, broken English and, like, bad…

Pete Kaminski (02:19:41): there's a…

Dave Kaminski (02:19:41): bad ideas.

Pete Kaminski (02:19:45): there's a… So… So, kind of, let's… let's think about that thought real quick. There's… this is a problem that I've seen in wikis since the early social text days. You start off with this cute little wiki that's well-organized, and then you start accreting stuff, and it gets crappier and crappier and crappier, and harder to manage, and it's junk at some point.

Dave Kaminski (02:20:09): Yeah. Is that… is that a principle of data? I mean, it's kind of like, you know, like a social group. You have one friend that you're… you're… they're amazing, and you love them, and then you end up with 20 friends, and all of a sudden you end up with, like, you know, 5 that are, like, you know, they spoil the party, you have to move the… you just have to go somewhere else.

Pete Kaminski (02:20:26): Yeah, definitely.

Dave Kaminski (02:20:28): And it's just a… it's just some…

Pete Kaminski (02:20:29): Well, and…

Dave Kaminski (02:20:30): nature of largeness that creates this, or something, or… I don't know. Or it's, like, genetic mutations kind of a thing?

Pete Kaminski (02:20:37): Yeah, probably. The other thing is… Especially with, like, organization and information architecture and stuff, and categorization, you know this really well. you start off your project with this clean, pristine schema of how to put things together, and then you start finding all these little, like, gotchas and exceptions. And a year later, you're going, crap, that was a really stupid schema, but I've got all the data in there. And, you know… How do you coordinate?

Dave Kaminski (02:21:12): I deported across.

Pete Kaminski (02:21:13): Well, so, the cool thing about Cloud Code is that it's magical with that kind of, like, stuff. So… even back in the olden days, before Cloud Code, but especially now, I think… I think the thing to do is to… And I'm trying to do this with the class, and we don't have the time in the class to do it properly, but… You get this large, overgrown mess, And what you do is… you…

Pete Kaminski (02:21:49): I guess maybe, maybe the, the, the term of art I used to use for, for wikis was molting. So, it's kind of like a lobster or something. You get bigger and bigger and bigger, and then you have to, like, shed your skin and start over.

Dave Kaminski (02:22:06): Yeah, that was my furniture cleaning stuff or something else.

Pete Kaminski (02:22:09): A better one.

Dave Kaminski (02:22:10): Termites.

Pete Kaminski (02:22:10): is the house, yeah. So, it's kind of like you've… you've grown into this house, and there's some rot and stuff like that, and you've got things tucked in corners that you can't even believe, and it doesn't make sense anymore. Right, right, right. So what you do is you say, hey, cloud code. this week is going to be moving week. We're not going to get much done, but we're going to, like, copy… we don't… so the cool thing is, it's digital, you don't have to move it, right? Let's make clones of the stuff that makes sense. Let's… let's look at what we've got. Let's make a plan for moving into a new space. Let's… start cloning stuff over into the new space. We'll keep the other one as a museum piece, in case we forget everything, or in case we want to, like, put ourselves back and have a tour through that, but let's rebuild the whole thing in a new house, and then start working there. So that's kind of the thing to do.

Dave Kaminski (02:23:04): That's… that's actually what I was going to do. I was going to basically go through one folder at a time. So, like, you know, my… my WordPress folder, I want to go through that. My Columbia folder, I want to go through that. Like, each of them has exquisite, you know, I was going to say exquisite. Each of them kind of has a unique problem.

Pete Kaminski (02:23:22): Yeah, I would probably do it differently. Go ahead. I would… And this is where I would use project planning with Cloud Code, which is a skill that we've kind of talked about, but haven't really talked about very much. But I would write a project plan. I would… so the way we do project plans in the class is you start a folder.

Dave Kaminski (02:23:41): God. I think I need to write that down. Okay, so back to square. This, remember we talked about this, like, the first thing, literally the first thing we talked about was project plans.

Pete Kaminski (02:23:50): I forgot.

Dave Kaminski (02:23:51): already that I need a project plan? Because I got so far into it.

Pete Kaminski (02:23:57): I haven't, can you.

Dave Kaminski (02:23:58): Can you just write, like.

Pete Kaminski (02:23:59): Just do a project.

Dave Kaminski (02:24:01): plan and, like, just put, like, put, like, you know, now, like, put it in caps or something like that for me. Oh my god. You probably shared that with me, but maybe not.

Pete Kaminski (02:24:12): Yeah, let me… let me just kind of write that down.

Dave Kaminski (02:24:22): I mean, Claude does have, like, the markdown files, right, which I don't know if they're appropriate or not, or good or not, and it does have…

Pete Kaminski (02:24:30): Some files are great. So…

Dave Kaminski (02:24:32): The .MDs, right?

Pete Kaminski (02:24:34): Yeah, so the way it works is… In many of your vaults. So, pick a vault that we were talking about, What's the vault that you would have? IT products.

Dave Kaminski (02:24:46): Okay, good. Why don't you pick one, because you'll understand the structure of it better.

Pete Kaminski (02:24:52): So let's just make a little… a little toy vault. That probably the AI can give to you. So I'm gonna say, make a new vault.

Pete Kaminski (02:25:10): Call it IT projects.

Pete Kaminski (02:25:16): Okay. So…

Dave Kaminski (02:25:24): So, I have… let's say that I have… projects inside of that, too, right?

Pete Kaminski (02:25:30): Yeah, I'm gonna make a… I have to make a read… sorry, I have to make a readme.nd file before I can do anything.

Dave Kaminski (02:25:36): Yeah, I'm starting to think that that long narrative's important. Can you think entirely.

Pete Kaminski (02:25:42): At the same time.

Dave Kaminski (02:25:43): Fair.

Pete Kaminski (02:25:44): What's that, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:25:44): My accountant, who didn't have my tax information today, who… that I gave it to him 3 weeks ago, who didn't check that I actually had the most essential items there. And because they transferred, but they didn't transfer it to his bad thing, and no one got back to me, and now it's… I called him at 7.30 in the morning, he says, well, we're missing the five most important things. I'm like… and they… and we have been trying to get in touch with you. I'm like. No. And then, anyway, I finally talked to my guy, like, he says, we filed an extension for you. I'm like, oh, great. He's had it. And I said, and I said, and this is going to be a mountain of sadness for you, with a bucket of tears for you to put onto it. I said, you'll notice that I'm also copying over the, it's… oh, by the way, the folder is called Essential Tax Information for Kaminsky 2025. That was a folder that they were missing.

Pete Kaminski (02:26:30): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:26:31): And also the one that was clearly labeled K2s or whatever. I said, I also have a spreadsheet a 2025 Excel spreadsheet, and all you have to do is look at the pages on the bottom and tab them, and you'll see that I've already done all the math for you already. You just have to review it. I said, I'm guessing you probably didn't even do that. And there was silence, and I said, I hear a bucket of tears. I said, I did all the work for you already. Yeah, so it's like, that was related to something you said, but, Oh, yeah, the README file. So the README file, so I've decided that, that, like, that, you know, narrative tracking, and my friend, friend I'll call him, Earl, Dr. Earl Verbeek. he writes, recursively, right? Yeah. And it's kind of a little bit, It's not always… it is… it is grammatical, but it's not… it's not… sharp, it's not concise, but he says, I write everything so that it's impossible for it to be misunderstood. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so… Yeah. And I think this is kind of another essential for your students, and also, I also asked Code, like, Claude, like, you know, will anyone who comes back and looks at this later understands what it is? You know, like, how are we going to make sure that someone can read this data after it may be stale, you know?

Pete Kaminski (02:27:57): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:27:58): And also, like, with an orphan project that, you know, like, say someone dies, you know, quickly, and they're working on research, it's like, someone should be able to open it and read all the REME files, like, oh, I get it. As opposed to spending 6 months and hiring a programmer to explain it to them.

Pete Kaminski (02:28:12): Yep. So I went for a Palmer Vault instead of IT projects, because.

Dave Kaminski (02:28:19): Sure.

Pete Kaminski (02:28:19): IT projects, anyway. So… so in here, you have, like, lots of folders and files and stuff about Palmer stuff, right? So, one of the top-level folders you can have is projects. Okay. And then inside projects, the way I've been teaching people. I'll show you, like, the whole thing real quick.

Dave Kaminski (02:28:42): If you can just narrate it to me, that way I can rest my eyes and look down.

Pete Kaminski (02:28:45): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:28:46): No, that's okay.

Pete Kaminski (02:28:46): what's a project… what's a thing that you need to do that relates to Palmer?

Dave Kaminski (02:28:52): Put all the manuals into, one place. Or basically name all the… take all the, I have a CSV, I want all the polymer in one location.

Pete Kaminski (02:29:07): Yeah. That's not.

Dave Kaminski (02:29:08): So it's not… it doesn't get messy. Later.

Pete Kaminski (02:29:10): I'm gonna… I'm gonna call this project Consolidate Items, maybe. Or even Palmer items or something. Is that okay?

Dave Kaminski (02:29:17): Yeah, well, I thought… oh, yeah, yeah, sure, that's perfect.

Pete Kaminski (02:29:22): So, this is different from…

Pete Kaminski (02:29:30): So, a… a…

Dave Kaminski (02:29:34): Another project would be to identify, the edges of Palmer dates. And so… and then identify early dates of Palmer, and then another one would be identify end dates of Palmer. you know, a possible polymer, and then we have the clear polymer, and then we have the maybe early, and then we have the maybe late, or then we can break that into, you know, the certain early, the certain late, and then the maybes. So you have, you know, a couple layers of stuff, right? And just keep on building blocks like that out. Or branches.

Pete Kaminski (02:30:06): So, you get the idea that the con… that's an excellent, example of…

Dave Kaminski (02:30:12): So build proper folders first, is one of the things that you're saying to me, and then it's…

Pete Kaminski (02:30:18): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:30:20): And then properly break out the folders to the finest possible point, or what is the.

Pete Kaminski (02:30:26): You know?

Dave Kaminski (02:30:26): point of how…

Pete Kaminski (02:30:27): This is not even…

Dave Kaminski (02:30:28): It should be…

Pete Kaminski (02:30:29): This is not even… This isn't information organization yet, this is actually project management, is all I'm doing here. So, say someday that… today's the day I'm going to work on consolidating Palmer items, right? Okay. Although…

Pete Kaminski (02:30:52): You, you talked more about.

Dave Kaminski (02:30:55): Spencerian or something, or… I mean, it doesn't matter, it's like… or whatever. And the other problem is I can't even identify the scripts, but I know that something's written backwards in England is not Palmer, right? So it's a non-Palmer item. In that date range, right?

Pete Kaminski (02:31:16): So, I can just kind of type, you know.

Dave Kaminski (02:31:27): Oh, you type in autofills? Is this Claude autofilling for you? Because it's…

Pete Kaminski (02:31:31): You know, I…

Dave Kaminski (02:31:31): Interpreting what you know?

Pete Kaminski (02:31:33): I copied it… no, I just copied it off the Zoom transcript.

Dave Kaminski (02:31:37): Oh, interesting. Okay.

Pete Kaminski (02:31:39): Which is another great, Another great practice to do. Once you figure out that you can do that, and then feed it to cloud in real time, it's like magic.

Dave Kaminski (02:31:56): It's really great for group work.

Pete Kaminski (02:31:59): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:32:00): Do you do that with your teams?

Pete Kaminski (02:32:02): Yeah. Not as… yeah, not as much as we could.

Dave Kaminski (02:32:07): Make sure you identify that as a, as a strategy for teamwork. If you don't write that down already.

Pete Kaminski (02:32:15): For you, or for…

Dave Kaminski (02:32:17): For your group, or for teaching, you know.

Pete Kaminski (02:32:19): Yeah, they've… they've seen me do it. It turns out… They've seen me do it, and they either will pick it up or they won't. A lot of people don't pick it up. And not because I didn't tell them to pick it up, just because, I don't know, people…

Dave Kaminski (02:32:33): Shouldn't it be… shouldn't it be a coarse thing that you note, or no? For yourself, or… Like, of course…

Pete Kaminski (02:32:42): Yeah, it's an interesting, interesting idea. Let's do an experiment here.

Dave Kaminski (02:32:49): I mean, I'm just trying to add value to your time, efforts, and class a little bit. I don't know if I can, or I know I'm too ignorant, but my ignorance is my greatest strength, you know?

Pete Kaminski (02:32:59): Look through the session transcripts and the field trip sessions, transcripts for… where I talk about… The practice of… having the transcript on, the Zoom transcript, and then copying… Important stuff off of that, and using it in real time during the meeting.

Pete Kaminski (02:33:28): So, we'll let this percolate and see what it does.

Dave Kaminski (02:33:31): So this is.

Pete Kaminski (02:33:32): claw.

Dave Kaminski (02:33:32): in command code. That's Cloud in terminal, running…

Pete Kaminski (02:33:37): in Obsidian, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:33:39): in Obsidian that you narrated into, and now it's going to run clawed.

Pete Kaminski (02:33:45): I used Mac Whisper to narrate a different thing.

Dave Kaminski (02:33:49): Right.

Pete Kaminski (02:33:49): And then it's looking through, so, here's the course… Here's the sessions. So, these are all the sessions for the course, and then each session has, transcripts and chats. And I've got two versions of them. I've got the raw, Zoom files, and then these are prett-up markdown versions of them. So now you can say things like, hey, you know, when did we learn about project management or something? Or the thing that we just did, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:34:24): Do you give your students a glossary of terms, so when they say, I want to do this, you know, project organization, and you're like. Hey, Bob, thank you for saying project organization. I'm just gonna make sure that, Claude remembers to link project organization to project management, because that's what we're gonna use, and, that will allow to do that? Or is there a way to tie that, or to…

Pete Kaminski (02:34:49): Yeah, we've got…

Dave Kaminski (02:34:50): I've been asking.

Pete Kaminski (02:34:51): this…

Dave Kaminski (02:34:51): Go ahead.

Pete Kaminski (02:34:52): We've got this glossary, you know, We kind of keep track of that a little bit in the glossary and in the encyclopedia.

Dave Kaminski (02:34:59): We could do that.

Pete Kaminski (02:35:00): better job of it, and we haven't auto-populated this very much. You know, but here's the time that I talked about metadata. You know, okay, we need to talk about metadata, and here's how it works.

Dave Kaminski (02:35:10): Yeah. I mean, because if I had known that cronTab was a thing, and if it just said, hey, I'm gonna be using a cron. instead of me saying, great, and I said, I'm going to be using a cron, please look for cron tab, here's a Wikipedia entry, which is very well, you know, established as a… as a source. I would have read through the whole damn thing. It would take me 5 minutes, and then I'd come back. I'm like, hey, I understand the cron tab now. I just see there's, you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I would have just… I wish she would have been more thoughtful, you know? It took me, like, whatever, you know, it's like, everything is a wasted effort with these LLMs.

Pete Kaminski (02:35:51): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:35:51): Because they're taking.

Pete Kaminski (02:35:52): Would you say?

Dave Kaminski (02:35:53): and trying to… trying to, like, bend up, like, a pretzel around your arm, and you just need, like, gentle correction, like, you know, like your language teacher would say, you know, it's, you know, it's si vous plait, not si vous plot, you know? And you're like.

Pete Kaminski (02:36:06): Oh, thank you. The trick is that you learn not to waste the LLM stuff, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:36:13): After $300, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:36:15): Yeah. So you have it save stuff, you have it… and… well, by the way, saving stuff is a whole other thing. So, so here you go. You asked, you know, have you talked about this to your class? And I have talked about it a couple times, but we never wrote it down as a how-to. So… Found it in three places, you know, Pete describes… so in, you know, in session 5, Track A, here I say it, field trip to.

Dave Kaminski (02:36:48): Cool.

Pete Kaminski (02:36:48): here I say it. Cool.

Dave Kaminski (02:36:49): Wow.

Pete Kaminski (02:36:50): 3, I say it. track if, you know, want me to pull up those, use, right at HiStio, he's… using…

Dave Kaminski (02:37:00): Did it know how… you knew that it asked the question, and so it offered to write up a how-to, because you're in your how-to section of the glossary?

Pete Kaminski (02:37:09): No, it's because… It's because… Probably, in this conversation, I've been working with how-tos, actually.

Dave Kaminski (02:37:18): Hmm.

Pete Kaminski (02:37:18): That's why. I sh- I should put a thing… in our CloudMD file that says, you know, if you've learned something from the… you know, if you just searched for something in the course, offer to make a how-to out of it. But anyway…

Dave Kaminski (02:37:35): And also, if you can't find something, send me a note, you know? Yeah. Or if you see something that's wrong or questionable, like, you know, like the, you know. Mike, like… back to my autistic self, you know, this woman wrote a note that says, I'm looking at this piece of paper. And it's… and it's on a steelcase desk by the window, but then… and it's got stuff clipped to it, and it said… it says. the material is on the desk next to the window. Well, she has another desk that's next to it that has her name on it, that's wooden. And so this kid said, oh, I think I know where all this stuff is, and so we ran over there, and we spent 5 minutes looking for it and couldn't find it. And then guess what? She had two different sheets, one that was for period 3, that was… one was period 5. I looked through period 5, and I didn't see the kids' names. I didn't realize that the period 3 was sitting right there, but she used the highlighter to identify that, and I was blurry a little bit, or I didn't have my glasses, I wasn't paying attention, didn't know what date it was. So I had two of everything, and it says a the, and a this, and then a I didn't have a date. It's like… it was… I need to go super autistic on it and have, like… and she also said, oh, and the students will have a packet. like, a packet, like, is it… what's the name of the packet? Or this… the teachers will often say, you know, work in Megowards, but they should say, MegaWords Words is a purple book, right? And there's so… there's these small identifiers that you would use If you had the, you know, the haiku conversation. And sometimes, you know, the Earl Verbeek version of… of properly, like, laying out everything so that there's no… Room for confusion. even in a messy teacher's room where there's a blizzard of papers stacked and piled and, you know, and rotated, I mean, it's… it's… it's… it's… you know, you can't make your way through it. And I think that one of the… you're gonna have your own kind of, like, clutter bomb here. Even though it's organized to you, your students can be like, oh god, I don't know where to start, you know? And…

Pete Kaminski (02:39:35): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:39:36): And so, they're gonna have to… I don't know, maybe help you build, you know, forks on this or something, or, you know, the…

Pete Kaminski (02:39:44): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:39:44): you know, here's how I learned because I'm, you know, I'm vision impaired, you know, I put everything… I put these 10 things in bold, or I'm working with yellow for this, and green for that, and red for that, and I go, oh, wow, or I'm putting a star for, yeah, a star with a note that's personal to me only. oh, wow, it never occurred to me I should do that inside my thing? Yeah, fine, do that, you know?

Pete Kaminski (02:40:07): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:40:09): So I think that the tuning of these tutorials is really helpful, and as we all become more language deficient. It's harder, and as the conversations become more abbreviated, we become more… misunderstood. Or when people are rushed, we don't take the time to explain fully what needs to be done, and we don't stack the priority the way Claude doesn't, you know?

Pete Kaminski (02:40:38): Yep. So now I have a how-to for the class, the whole, you know, the whole thing with different ideas, and how to use it, and yada yada.

Dave Kaminski (02:40:48): Oh, good. It did it for you?

Pete Kaminski (02:40:51): It did a… it did… it did a good job, considering…

Dave Kaminski (02:40:55): It did 95% of it for you, you just told it how to do it.

Pete Kaminski (02:40:57): Yeah, it's kind of like 90… 90%. But all I… all I did was, I said, write a how-to, you know? Where have I talked about this, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:41:06): Yeah, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:41:06): So I got a lot of value out of that, even though it's not perfect, it's pretty good.

Dave Kaminski (02:41:10): Yeah, yeah, I think it's super useful, because, I mean, people in Zoom friggin' meetings all the time, right? I mean, this, I guess, the other reason to mention it, and then it's like, if they can just, like, skim this, and then put this down, and, like, make it work, it's like, Jesus, God, it'll make everyone so much more efficient, and so much more… so I would also class this by, I would also class this by, by discipline, so I would put this into the business meeting, hot links, or whatever, do you know what I'm saying? So…

Pete Kaminski (02:41:38): Let me show you something really amazing.

Pete Kaminski (02:41:47): So, this… I had Freya do this. It could have been cloud code. Freya was a little bit easier for me to work on. But I had Freya look at the whole, like, all 1,200 pages.

Dave Kaminski (02:41:57): Great.

Pete Kaminski (02:41:57): And I said, make a finding guide for me.

Dave Kaminski (02:42:01): Perfect, I was… Talk about that, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:42:03): It's actually just… it's all the…

Dave Kaminski (02:42:05): Super important. Super important.

Pete Kaminski (02:42:07): You know, and then you can look at this. Obsidian has a nice table of context feature.

Dave Kaminski (02:42:13): But shouldn't you… shouldn't you surface that so it's at, that's at the top? Because you have, you have it, you have it alphabetical. And it's nested in coarse.

Pete Kaminski (02:42:24): So, there's a thing called Start Here. And you're right, probably, I should say.

Dave Kaminski (02:42:32): Start here, should go right down to Course Topic Finding Guide, probably.

Pete Kaminski (02:42:35): Well, there's always, like, one more thing that needs to go above that, right? So… welcome to the vault!

Dave Kaminski (02:42:44): I know, it's like an endless… this is an endless, it's like a fool's errand, but at the same time, you're building something super valuable for people here. I mean, it's super valuable.

Pete Kaminski (02:42:53): But you are right that I should, so…

Pete Kaminski (02:43:03): Let's see, where was this? This is… this is 7,000 words of…

Dave Kaminski (02:43:09): It's worth reading. I mean, people…

Pete Kaminski (02:43:11): That we've talked about, and it's all, like… Well, so the way I did… the way I tell people… so, you know, in the olden days, back when, you know, some of us were old enough to go to a brick-and-mortar library, and you walk up to the library behind the desk. And he said, I need to know about neutral point of view in wiki culture. And she's like, hang on, let me look through the finding guide for that, you know, and she finds it, and then she's like, okay, you need.

Dave Kaminski (02:43:36): Yeah, that's where my background's coming from.

Pete Kaminski (02:43:38): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:43:39): Right, right.

Pete Kaminski (02:43:42): even a civilian document, this is for the librarian to look at, you know, and then… so I guess I haven't told them this, but hey, use cloud code to look through this and find the thing that you're looking for.

Dave Kaminski (02:43:52): In the university libraries, there used to be, I think, 2 volumes, or maybe three, and they were, like.

Pete Kaminski (02:43:57): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:43:58): They were like, you know, like this, you know, like, standing up, like, and and I think it was a subject index, and you would just start with subject index and go through it, and then try and find that it's not… it's not movies, it's films, right? And it's like, is it black and white? Is it silent era? Is it what? And then, right now, one of the… I don't know if you could run it against it, because I think it might… you could… you might be able to ask Claude this question. It might be a tight enough question. You might be able to say, hey, look at my, whatever, the frickin' guide, the guide or the course, whatever you have here, and run it against, the TGM at the Library of Congress. And, tell me if you can, this… if you can gain any insight from the structural material and the structural, build of that, right? That's why I asked it, like, what is Plato, what is Socrates, you know, the knowledge base, oh, the Talmud, you know, oh, double-entry journal, you know? So, I think that running some of these big systems against Claude. and against the things we make, makes it really smart… much smarter, and… and it gives you kind of a proper entry point, or, kind of socially standardized entry points that you wouldn't kind of come up with otherwise. You're like, oh man, that's, like, really essential, or… you know what I'm saying?

Pete Kaminski (02:45:25): Yep. My brain is about full or empty or whatever, but let's…

Dave Kaminski (02:45:35): Yes.

Pete Kaminski (02:45:35): This project thing real quick.

Dave Kaminski (02:45:37): Okay, sure, yeah, please. Sorry to keep interrupting you. I hope it's adding value, as I said, you know?

Pete Kaminski (02:45:41): It is, definitely. So I haven't done… so this is a new vault, so I haven't, installed the Cloud Code sidebar in here, but let me do that real quick. It's… it goes super fast. To start there, I need a magic string from, this vault. John Deere, what the hell?

Dave Kaminski (02:46:03): Do people know that they're supposed to touch the, the…

Pete Kaminski (02:46:06): It's like.

Dave Kaminski (02:46:06): The settings, gear in the bottom? I mean, that's a… the graphical, the UI, or the… was it the UX, is always a killer for me on these. And, that's the other thing that probably people should review after, like, a week, now that you know this around. Here's a… here's a… here's a quiz on the different quadrants of the page, and let me identify them for you visually, and also, explain what each widget is, and all the sub-items in it, because they've done a very good job, like, laying it all out, but then it just becomes invisible, and you're like, oh my god, I just didn't know that was there, you know? It's like, Microsoft actually, I think, fell into that problem maybe in the… what the… by the time they got into the 80s or whatever, they built so much, and now you can't find it, and it… or it was really good before because it was lean, and then it became fat, and then they took out the great stuff, so… I think that graphically, a lot of these pages are very hard to see, just, you know, as a…

Pete Kaminski (02:47:07): Oh, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:47:08): and…

Pete Kaminski (02:47:08): It's impossible, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:47:10): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:47:11): And it's… it's a perennial problem. So it turns out there's 3 different ways to get to settings on Mac Obsidian. And for a while, I was asking people, okay, now find the settings in… in Obsidian. And… Someone would guess one way, someone would guess another way, and nobody guessed the right way, but…

Dave Kaminski (02:47:32): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for the validation.

Pete Kaminski (02:47:37): So, this is… this is the classic way, and this works on Windows, too. I don't… so then there's a different way, which some people find. They go up to the menu bar, which most people don't even realize is there, but some people.

Dave Kaminski (02:47:49): Right, yeah, sometimes it gets lost, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:47:51): They go, it's in file, oh, here it is, settings. So that's another way to do it.

Dave Kaminski (02:47:56): That's why I do it?

Pete Kaminski (02:47:57): No, the correct way to do it is Command Comma. All Mac applications, this is one of the gifts from Steve Jobs, there aren't many, but this is one of them. Any Mac application, you go up to it, and you say Command Comma, and it brings up the settings. Command comma is the right way to do it.

Dave Kaminski (02:48:15): Do you have that in your… do you have that in your guide?

Pete Kaminski (02:48:17): Mmm, no, I don't. okay, so… That's a good question.

Dave Kaminski (02:48:25): plans, comment.

Dave Kaminski (02:48:32): So that would be a good thing to send… good thing to send to your Mac people.

Pete Kaminski (02:48:37): Yeah, it would be, actually. I… there's… there's, the beginning part of the class is, okay, we need to review some… some computer… basic computer stuff. Some of you know this. others. The one that blew me away, this was… I was teaching an introductory to AI… Introduction to AI, I think, two years ago, actually. And I was showing them how to use JavaScript to write cool little things, like to mix up words, and then we had this thing where we'd mix up words and then give it to Midjourney, and it would do crazy, crazy pictures, right? So…

Dave Kaminski (02:49:15): I don't know what that means, but, you know.

Pete Kaminski (02:49:17): I could show you.

Dave Kaminski (02:49:21): Oh, is Midjourney… is Midjourney a game or a fantasy?

Pete Kaminski (02:49:25): the…

Dave Kaminski (02:49:25): world.

Pete Kaminski (02:49:26): the image generator.

Dave Kaminski (02:49:27): Oh, okay.

Pete Kaminski (02:49:28): And in the olden days, you could give it any prompt, and it would do cool stuff. It always makes pretty pictures, but… so we would give it literally garbledygook. Let me show… let me show you, well, if you've got…

Dave Kaminski (02:49:39): Sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, take your time. Like, there should be some joy, you know, you should be able to…

Pete Kaminski (02:49:44): This one…

Dave Kaminski (02:49:44): Have a beer.

Pete Kaminski (02:49:46): This one you have to actually are gonna look for. Or look at the VS.

Dave Kaminski (02:49:51): Yeah, no.

Pete Kaminski (02:49:52): yeah. we call them Jenko fires, and the idea was… So half of these… two-thirds of these are written by me, but some of them are written by students who knew nothing about programming and nothing about JavaScript, and nothing about anything, right? So, here's the adjective Adder by Vicki Baptiste. So, God.

Dave Kaminski (02:50:18): had a fighter.

Pete Kaminski (02:50:19): Little lamb. Oops. And then you're supposed to click a thing, and Bizarre Mary had an enigmatic little enigmatic lamb, right? And you can just do this over and over. So, you know, Delightful Mary is going to come out in the image generator different than just Mary, right? So then, copy result to clipboard. Let's try the codifier. Written by Claire.

Dave Kaminski (02:50:45): I would like this, so I want the Catifier, like, I want to own that so I can give that to Julie to use on her computer.

Pete Kaminski (02:50:52): Delightful Whiskers had tabby Astonishing Whiskers, it's Astonishing Tabby, right? It just took… Delightful Mary had a whatever, and it just, like, put… splattered a bunch of…

Dave Kaminski (02:51:04): Is that literally open source, Pete, that MIT license?

Pete Kaminski (02:51:07): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:51:08): Can I download that? Can you send that to me? I want to give that to Julie, and I want to just sit and play with her. She's actually to the point of, I think she's actually weirdly, sensible when I'm logical with her, and it actually works really well. I think I told you when I say, end something like that, like, her brain, like, just, like, goes like, you know, and she has to think of the 20,000 things it might be, so now she… I used to owe her $5, now she just says beep, but I think she uses the beep as, like, an end stop, and then delete. I said, I need to brush my teeth, or something like that, and then she's like, well, or maybe floss, or maybe he's got a toothpick, or maybe, he's gonna use the floss sticks, like my mom. Oh my god, my mom, I miss her, I love her, we have those in the thing, I didn't even throw them out. I mean, she… that's really what she's experiencing in real time, right?

Pete Kaminski (02:51:53): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (02:51:53): And so she says, she says, please don't do that, please don't say something like that. She says, you know, I have no idea how hard it is for me. She has 10,000 reels in her head. And so she, like, she has to sort it all. But the catifier… anyway, she really likes, logical stuff, I found out, and if I say logical things to her, instead of, like, you know, hey, sweetie, where's your… why is your shit here? But I say, hey, we're gonna come up with this system, and everything's gonna be in a bag, you know? It's like, oh, that's a great idea, you know? But anyway, I'd love to show her the catifier. That way, I can, I can get her kind of hot on the, Oh, I gotta send a note that I'm still alive, she doesn't know where I am. The,

Dave Kaminski (02:52:44): I know you're right, tyrannism.

Dave Kaminski (02:52:55): I just want to also send her an emotional signal, still working, done soon, smiley face, so it's like, I'm not gonna come home angry, you know?

Pete Kaminski (02:53:04): Yup.

Dave Kaminski (02:53:04): The… so, did you build this, and this became an MIT thing? Oh, it's copper?

Pete Kaminski (02:53:10): MIT is… MIT is just a flavor of open source license.

Dave Kaminski (02:53:16): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (02:53:17): It's not actually an.

Dave Kaminski (02:53:18): But you, you wrote it, and… or then, or then…

Pete Kaminski (02:53:21): Claire wrote this one, and then I got her to, you know, put her name on it, and then an open source license.

Dave Kaminski (02:53:28): But you wrote, you wrote the Jenkifier code? source code?

Pete Kaminski (02:53:34): Well, this is… this is really early, hey, do vibe coding with ChatGPT, like, literally a year and a half before Vibe… the name Vibe Code was written, right? And here's the whole thing. This is what you used to do. You would copy this and paste it into ChatGPT. So the instructions to ChatGPT are write a single HTML file with JavaScript. And then you replace this, right? So Claire put something like, make lots of cat words. And so then he would copy and paste this to ChatGPT, write lots of cat words, and then ChatGPT would spit out an HTML file, and literally, these are the HTML files, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:54:19): And so ChatGPT was running then, a couple years ago?

Pete Kaminski (02:54:22): No, you… you… so here's the interleaver. You put two texts in, and then you say interleave, and it takes, you know, one word from one, and one word from the other. So then the craziest ones are, like, Random gen… random, reverse text, reverse, swap pairs of words.

Dave Kaminski (02:54:44): Reverse drinker wire. Alphabet.

Pete Kaminski (02:54:48): every word. So take delightful, and then make D, E, F, G.

Dave Kaminski (02:54:56): Oh my god, Peter, this whole… this thing is so brilliant. Does… do you have this on, like, your wiki or something like that?

Pete Kaminski (02:55:02): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:55:02): this and get A million hits. Oh my god. You should make sure, can you please, can you say, can you send a note to, to me and Peter and Nick, and say, David insisted that I send it to everyone because it's a MLAO, like, bit of fun when you have nothing better to do?

Pete Kaminski (02:55:22): I'm just gonna put it in the… in the…

Dave Kaminski (02:55:25): Oh my god.

Pete Kaminski (02:55:25): doc, and.

Dave Kaminski (02:55:26): Oh my god.

Pete Kaminski (02:55:27): Leo.

Dave Kaminski (02:55:28): Oh my god.

Pete Kaminski (02:55:29): So, the way I got to this story, so this is me teaching new.

Dave Kaminski (02:55:35): Early AI, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:55:36): Early AI. And so… the deal was, you know, you had this, you put this in ChatGPT, and then it would make an HTML file, and then you had to download it. And then you just load the HTML file, like, in your browser, right?

Dave Kaminski (02:55:51): Yeah, yeah. Super easy.

Pete Kaminski (02:55:53): Sweet. So it was a very simple way to teach people that you, too, can be And a few people wrote complicated ones, right? This is.

Dave Kaminski (02:56:04): Hold on.

Pete Kaminski (02:56:04): take a Zoom transcript and clean it up, you know? So my buddy Dan wrote this, and it's amazing, you know? The one that I wrote was a way to.

Dave Kaminski (02:56:19): Is it better than the ones? Right now, they have an amazing, transcript one. Is this better than the one?

Pete Kaminski (02:56:26): No, it's… this one isn't better, but it's, you know, the same idea. But is yours…

Dave Kaminski (02:56:31): Years ago, so it, it, it, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:56:33): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (02:56:33): For its day, it was really strong, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (02:56:35): Well, and it was quick and dirty for… it was, you know, Dan's not a… not a programmer, but it was like, oh, look, you know, you can use ChatGP to write real software now. The one that I wrote, this… well, long story. You put in the values from your mid-journey dashboard, and it tells you how many fast hours you have left. And, if you're tracking to target, you know, anyway. So, the reason… the reason I brought this whole Jankifier thing up was because, As an example.

Dave Kaminski (02:57:08): The Jankifier for betterification project, which is itself its own kind of, like… it's like, what? Oh my god, it's so funny. It's like, there's, like, so much funny stuff here, it's, like, really funny. Oh my god.

Pete Kaminski (02:57:29): to this.

Dave Kaminski (02:57:29): Oh my god, you should send it to Heather, too. I don't know if she would like it, it might be too mind-expanding and upsetting to her, but…

Pete Kaminski (02:57:35): It's kind of too simple. It's like, like, somebody like Nick would look at this and like, oh, Pete was doing JavaScript stuff.

Dave Kaminski (02:57:42): This is so, so, so funny. It's so funny, though. I mean, it's.

Pete Kaminski (02:57:46): So…

Dave Kaminski (02:57:46): It's so funny. It's so funny.

Pete Kaminski (02:57:48): So the trick here was that you ended up with an HTML file, and you had to save it to your download directory, and then click it, right? So, I'm going through this explanation and saying, okay, everybody get that? Now go ahead and download your Jenkifier HTML file, and find it in your downloads. And some, like, Danielle. Daniel is, like, 30 years old. She's a professional woman. She's been using computers her whole professional life, right? She's got a decade of using computers. And she raises her hand, and she said, Pete, I didn't want to interrupt you, but I haven't understood a single word that you've said for the past 5 minutes. What's a file? What's a file?

Dave Kaminski (02:58:31): What?

Pete Kaminski (02:58:32): Download. What… what do you mean, click on a file? And I'm like, thank you so much, Danielle, for telling me that you were confused, because I had no clue. I thought I was… speaking sensical words, and I didn't realize I was speaking nonsense. It turns out, it took some… some work, but it turns out… She did… had no idea that there was a menu bar up here. Literally no idea. She had never seen it before in her life. Her eyes had never recognized it. She did not have any clue what an ID… a file was. Her whole computing life has been in Google Office. And in Google Office, it doesn't… it doesn't work with files, right? Except for this file thing here. It's like, you know, make a copy, share, open. Her whole life was in Google Office, and she never had the concept of files on her computer. And so… So, back to where we started from, there's… there's a basic computer skills segment that you actually kind of need to run people through. Do you know what a file is? Do you know what your… you know, can you find an application? Can you find an application called Terminal? It's in your utility folder. What's a folder? You know, all that stuff. Literally, that was the start of the course. I sent that out as homework beforehand, and everybody kind of passed, but it was like. you're gonna need to, you know, you're gonna need to manage passwords and API keys. Do you have a password keeper? You know, I recommend.

Dave Kaminski (03:00:11): I don't, actually, I make a… I'm making a big mistake there, yeah?

Pete Kaminski (03:00:15): So, anyway, let's… let's go back to the project thing real quick and try to wrap that up. So I… while we were talking, I set up Cloud Code in this, I'm gonna close that one. I set it up in this Obsidian. So, the thing that you do is, in your Palmer… folder. you make a folder called Projects, and then when you want to do a new thing, even a small, simple thing, but, like, identify early dates for Palmer. Or… so what you do is you write the goals of the project, and then you say, hey, Cloud Code, look at this file, And then you say, flesh this… Goals document out into a full project plan.

Dave Kaminski (03:01:12): Oh, and you let Claude do that? Yeah. And why wouldn't you let.

Pete Kaminski (03:01:15): And…

Dave Kaminski (03:01:16): ChatGPT do that for free.

Pete Kaminski (03:01:18): I'll tell you in a sec.

Dave Kaminski (03:01:21): Okay.

Pete Kaminski (03:01:21): A full project plan in the same folder.

Dave Kaminski (03:01:25): And are you telling it to write in Ruby, or are you making any choices for it in terms.

Pete Kaminski (03:01:30): So, I didn't tell it… I didn't tell it to do anything except write a plan. So this is the building the rails thing. I don't want you to do any work. I just want you to write a plan. And then, we're going to look at the plan together, and I'm going to reflect on whether or not it's a good plan. This is where you, like, bend, you know, you say, oh, there's, you know, there's… you just dumped dirt on this part of the track, you're gonna derail, or… Right, right, right.

Dave Kaminski (03:01:59): Right, right.

Pete Kaminski (03:02:00): You're going off in the wrong direction. So here you go. What is Palmer in this context? Palmer method, or… yeah, date. So I'll say… so even to write the plan, so this is a bunch of great stuff, right? It doesn't have enough context, because I haven't told it.

Dave Kaminski (03:02:15): Right.

Pete Kaminski (03:02:16): Polymer hydrating method. What's the scope of this project? Historical research, actually both. So, it's not writing Ruby, it's not developing an information architecture, it's not doing anything. Because all I said was to make a plan. Fleshed-out plan, right?

Dave Kaminski (03:02:40): And how many tokens am I gonna burn a day if I spend 5 hours a day doing this?

Pete Kaminski (03:02:45): Dude, check it out. How many tokens are you gonna burn during this once, versus how many tokens are you gonna burn having the train run down the track, like, 100 times and crash every time?

Dave Kaminski (03:02:57): Yeah, so the one… there… I have two or three super high-level questions for you. I want to, set a timer for, universal time in my, thing, so I don't crash the day into one another day. Yeah. Because that… that kills my… my… my… because, like, it has… say it has, like, a chrono for pulling down my, my OneDrive, but I'm, like, I'm going to bed at 9 o'clock at night, and I'm already, like, burned, like, I've already burned, like, $12, and I just… I'm… all I'm doing is closing my computer that night, and that does… I'm not gonna use it for 3 days, but I just burned 12 extra dollars, because I was up extra. So Universal Time. I want to manage my costs, and I want to manage my sessions, in the week. So, the week is when my day started, when my… when my… you know, it's like whatever day I started, but I have to… I'm not even sure when I started. I'm losing track of that, losing track of my hours, and I'm losing track of universe at time. And you… by the time you get me to 3 things, 2 I can do, three I'm lost. And so I need almost, like, a scheduler, or something like that for myself. Or that it will track my schedule. You know…

Pete Kaminski (03:04:10): Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a ton of sense.

Dave Kaminski (03:04:14): And then also, I wanted, you know, instead of just saying, oh, you know, hey, cap your budget, it's like, the, all the invoices that I download, they seem like a day late and a dollar short, and it just keeps on, like, running my credit card and all this other stuff. And it doesn't even… it won't even… I want it to count the tokens for me. From the beginning to the end, and then total it for a cost.

Pete Kaminski (03:04:35): See, you're… you're over-focused on that because you're burning tokens like there's no tomorrow. You don't even need to manage that if you're doing good project hygiene. Because…

Dave Kaminski (03:04:49): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:04:52): So, I…

Dave Kaminski (03:04:53): But how hard?

Pete Kaminski (03:04:53): Was it to…

Dave Kaminski (03:04:54): To count… a token counter, like, isn't that, like, 5 cents to just do a token counter?

Pete Kaminski (03:05:00): The data doesn't really exist.

Dave Kaminski (03:05:04): How is that possible? You see, it's a It goes up, and then it says go down. You're watching on the screen.

Pete Kaminski (03:05:11): Yeah… Tell me how many tokens you just used.

Dave Kaminski (03:05:21): I mean, it seems… this is where I just lose my mind with this program, basically. It's just like, I just… I just don't understand the whole… Issue, you know? I mean, you get in an Uber, you see it go, right? Yeah, see, why don't you go back to the… well… it won't even… I can't even get mine to go to Anthropic. It says, oh, I don't have any access to that.

Pete Kaminski (03:05:44): Give it access.

Dave Kaminski (03:05:46): I tried to. It says, no, I don't do that. I don't… I don't have… I can't see that page. Like, why not?

Pete Kaminski (03:05:52): Because it's not logged in, so you have to train it to log in.

Dave Kaminski (03:05:56): Oh, God. Well, of course, so it doesn't even have to log in. That's so dumb.

Pete Kaminski (03:06:00): Right?

Dave Kaminski (03:06:01): No, I know, I guess.

Pete Kaminski (03:06:02): Yeah, it's so… it's so dumb. So… I don't know, is,

Pete Kaminski (03:06:18): So, in fact, Somewhere in the bowels of this thing. When it does a call. And get stuff. I… it's… it's actually… I'm kind of back to where you're over-focused on token and inference costs, because… You are…

Dave Kaminski (03:06:35): But I burned… I burned $300 in 5 days, though, and it's on…

Pete Kaminski (03:06:38): Yeah, but it's because…

Dave Kaminski (03:06:39): I'm trying to…

Pete Kaminski (03:06:40): It's because you're using it the wrong way. If you just use it the right way, you won't burn tokens as fast.

Dave Kaminski (03:06:46): Well, but if I… if I… Yeah, okay, sure, but, you know, I mean, where's the… where's the speed limiter on my Corvette, you know? I mean…

Pete Kaminski (03:06:56): Yeah, yeah, yeah. So someday you won't worry about this. You'll have a 200… Don't mind.

Dave Kaminski (03:07:07): So it's, it's a, it's For… it's a… it's a beginner's problem.

Pete Kaminski (03:07:11): Hi! You know…

Dave Kaminski (03:07:17): I mean, you know what, I'll just work slower with it, you know, and I'll just figure out what my days are, and I'll just…

Pete Kaminski (03:07:21): You don't… don't work slower with it, work smarter with it.

Dave Kaminski (03:07:26): So…

Pete Kaminski (03:07:27): And this project, right here, this project thing is a way to do it, right?

Dave Kaminski (03:07:33): Yeah, I mean, this'll consume… this'll consume, like, 3 quarters of my time just typing into this thing, or… I mean, it'll consume a huge amount of my time for… like, 3 weeks. I can check… I could… if I check back with you in 3 weeks, I'm like, alright, Pete, I just finished my cleaning of my project, what's next, right? I mean, I could literally spend weeks just doing that. You can…

Pete Kaminski (03:07:52): bite off little chunks of it. You don't have to do it all at once. But… I think pretty quickly, you should start you should start a new vault, and you should start using Claude in a…

Pete Kaminski (03:08:07): So, you said something really interesting, and let me kind of try to bring it back to that. You said, it does a really good job with structured data.

Dave Kaminski (03:08:22): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:08:24): Look, it built this. Amazing, wonderful thing. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing, wonderful, right?

Dave Kaminski (03:08:28): me, like, I mean, and then I spent, honestly, most of my time telling it, oh… I mean, it wanted it all to be brown.

Pete Kaminski (03:08:34): God.

Dave Kaminski (03:08:35): Make this white, you know, let's work with more contrast colors.

Pete Kaminski (03:08:38): tonight.

Dave Kaminski (03:08:39): said, put a… put a… instead of a teardrop, you know, why don't we build a library… why don't we put the library building? I actually spent more time moving Scranton Because the line was cutting… basically, the lines were cutting through the cities, and I said, move… move it… move it two lines out to sea, or move it… put this one to the right, or put it up a little bit. So that… that's how I spend most of my time. adjusting it.

Pete Kaminski (03:09:03): I get an amazing app done in, you know, 30 minutes, and then it takes me an hour and a half to, like, tweak pixels.

Dave Kaminski (03:09:10): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:09:11): So, it works really good with structured data. It… it's crap, and it runs through stop signs, and… and, crashes into brick walls all the time when it… you don't have struct… when you don't have structure, right?

Dave Kaminski (03:09:26): Right.

Pete Kaminski (03:09:27): So, the fix for that is… To structure the way you work with it.

Dave Kaminski (03:09:36): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:09:38): So, the way I work with cloud code is I never tell it to do anything. I always tell it to write a plan to do something, right? So, here's my basic goal. here's the project plan for it, and it does a really good job of, you know, here's why you would… reliable handwriting. A companion project. I don't… I don't even know where it got this from, because I didn't… I don't think I gave this to it. Identify end dates. I… maybe… Maybe it is in here.

Dave Kaminski (03:10:13): It's, it's part of our things.

Pete Kaminski (03:10:15): Oh, end dates, yeah.

Dave Kaminski (03:10:17): You said something interesting, which was, you don't have to have structured data, you should structure the way you work with it. I don't know if that's in your guide, but that's, like, quotable, you know? And you should put that in bold.

Pete Kaminski (03:10:30): I, well, so I'm gonna go back to the, the, your, your experiences and your stories.

Dave Kaminski (03:10:35): It's…

Pete Kaminski (03:10:35): old for my class, because I never even considered the idea of having an unstructured way of cloud code, so they never even learned how to do it an unstructured way.

Dave Kaminski (03:10:46): Well.

Pete Kaminski (03:10:46): David said in the beginning that, hey, Pete always talks about this, you know, every interaction with Claude is structured.

Dave Kaminski (03:10:55): And you have created structure, but you don't explicitly state.

Pete Kaminski (03:11:00): And now I have to go back.

Dave Kaminski (03:11:02): or the way you go.

Pete Kaminski (03:11:03): Of course, tomorrow, you know, tomorrow and Friday, it's going to be, okay, so my brother David…

Dave Kaminski (03:11:08): Make sure you write a note to it. Write a note into your intro guide, and say, don't worry if you don't have structured data, right? Comma, you know, structure the way you work with it in bold, right?

Pete Kaminski (03:11:24): interactions.

Dave Kaminski (03:11:25): You know, if you're burning tokens, you're working the wrong way. You have to go back into Obsidian and… and structure the projects, or, you know, chunk them out, or whatever you're supposed to do. I mean, that's like… that's probably… that might be 2 or 3 of its own, kind of, paragraphs, or broken outs, whatever. Like, making it too big might be… thing, I think it was just, like, 3 paragraphs.

Pete Kaminski (03:11:45): bad, yep. It's bad, make it too big, yep.

Dave Kaminski (03:11:48): Yeah, make it short enough, and then just, like, some bullet points, like, here's 5 bullet points, and then my… maybe priority order, you know? I think it's really great, you know?

Pete Kaminski (03:11:57): information.

Dave Kaminski (03:11:58): Super obvious, and it's… and someone's gonna forget, and then you're gonna say it to them tomorrow, and they're like, oh my god, I just realized that that's what we've been doing, and you're like…

Pete Kaminski (03:12:07): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (03:12:07): Yeah, so we've been doing, and you're like…

Pete Kaminski (03:12:10): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (03:12:10): I guess you forgot, too. It was like, very human of you, very human of you.

Pete Kaminski (03:12:14): Yep.

Dave Kaminski (03:12:15): Very Klon-like.

Pete Kaminski (03:12:16): So… So, a good way to start a project is to transcribe it to Claude, and this is about as long as you need. You can make it longer if you need to, or whatever. So then you tell Claude, expand this into a real project plan. So, and it came up with the rationale for pinning down when polymer headring first appeared in various contexts, you know, yada yada. It fleshed out your certain early, possible early, possible late, certain late. So… so here you go, right? Related.

Dave Kaminski (03:12:52): Does your class know that they can type in, like, whatever, 40 words and it will create this? Could you have this as, like, a slide, or, like, two slides? The start and then the end?

Pete Kaminski (03:13:01): Over and over, with them.

Dave Kaminski (03:13:03): You did it, you did it, but where is it identified? Where's it.

Pete Kaminski (03:13:07): Yeah.

Dave Kaminski (03:13:08): Next slide.

Pete Kaminski (03:13:09): Yeah, I need to do that, yeah, and I'll do that. Tomorrow, actually.

Dave Kaminski (03:13:13): And then also, should it be 30 words, or should it be 1,000 words, right? Because I'm going to write… I'm going to write it out in a structured way, and you can say, no, it doesn't matter what, you know, order you put it, because it will just do this automatically, because it's smart enough to do that. So give them… give them rails for their stuff, and give them, like, parameters. You know, I don't know, I just think it might be helpful.

Pete Kaminski (03:13:35): So, this is… This is… This is a solid project plan, but it's not the project plan that you would run, because you would have given it better information about what you actually want to do.

Dave Kaminski (03:13:47): Maybe, maybe.

Pete Kaminski (03:13:47): Maybe, yeah. But then you go through here, and maybe it's, maybe… and this… this project is actually too big. It should have been identifying early dates for Palmer, you know, a sub-project. Let's… let's actually do that.

Dave Kaminski (03:14:06): Well, actually, I need… I need one before that, because not only do I have an early certified Palmer, but then I have, maybe it's in.

Pete Kaminski (03:14:15): Literally.

Dave Kaminski (03:14:15): Or it becomes a, you know.

Pete Kaminski (03:14:17): Yeah, what I meant by earlier is this… this identify dates for Palmer is a super project. It's not a practical miniature project, like, catalog my polymer and polymer-related materials. That would be a great sub-project, right? Another one is write a… write a, you know, write an analysis of Palmer dates. And just… just do all of the research to have a good… Classification guide. So, you know, you break a big project like this up into smaller projects, like, I would call them sub-projects. Let me try to make a one real quick.

Dave Kaminski (03:15:02): I was also thinking that your students probably don't… may not even have the understanding of the language or the framing, and if you had, say, 2 or 3, or you could also ask them to write it up, and you'll, you know, put it into your wiki or whatever, or you'll send it out. of, like, like, kind of, like, what they did, and then how it worked. Because… each of them may come out of… kind of come at it… people think differently, right? So they're gonna come at it differently, they're gonna get different results, and then they're gonna create different messes, and each of those is gonna be kind of unique, and you're gonna… so that's kind of where I was going back to, like, the TGM vocabularies, or… Or, like, you know, priority sequencing, and it's like, you know, like, what am I writing? You know, is it comparison-contrast? Is it a narrative? Is it… you know, is it poetic in its form, right? And it's like, well, those are all words, but you never told me, you know, use, you know, use rich examples of language so that it has Like, ChatGPT did a terrible job, I gave it some examples, and then it pinned those as facts, and I'm like, God, it's like, you know, it was just a… it was a… just an example in, like, version… 2 or 3, but then it became a fact in version 11. I'm like, oh my god, there's, like, Project Drift, right? So, I don't know. I don't know if that's helpful, but…

Dave Kaminski (03:16:32): this stuff is so maddening. It's… you spend, like, an hour or two or three just learning, like, the smallest thread about how this thing is working, and you all… you have to go back and read the clawed output. of it's talking to itself to really figure out what in the hell's happening, because it just does stupid shit.

Pete Kaminski (03:16:52): Yeah, the way you were doing it, yeah. You don't have to do very much of that, if you… yeah.

Dave Kaminski (03:16:58): If you do it right, yeah, if you do it right, yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:16:59): your interactions with it. And another for…

Dave Kaminski (03:17:05): Well, and that's the thing, I mean, I was very… I was very task-oriented with structured data on the first couple days, and I got huge results. And then I started monitoring its behavior based upon the flaws of the… data processing, and then I tried to nail each of those down, and then they just, you know, exploded, and it was both helpful and not helpful, and then… and then it kind of turned into trash, you know? I guess that's kind of how the data works, right? I mean, you get to this point where it just explodes on you, it becomes this volcano of of junk, and it's costing you… and the casinos, bell is going off, too, at the slot machine, so… I mean, it was.

Pete Kaminski (03:17:46): So.

Dave Kaminski (03:17:46): really exciting to watch. Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:17:49): Yeah. Great experience. I mean, you did… you did amazing stuff, and you're right, having that experience of running through the… running through the wilderness naked and afraid, being chased by bears, yeah. So, I made up bullshit, you know, sub-projects, find and collate, Palmer Possible personal letters, you know, just write a…

Dave Kaminski (03:18:13): Great, perfect, perfect, yeah, perfect.

Pete Kaminski (03:18:15): You know, so the process is survey, screen, classify, catalog, collate, right? Wow, great. Deliverables, a catalog of digital copies of some of the patterns… Great, yeah, perfect, perfect. Business documents, similar, and then…

Dave Kaminski (03:18:31): Yeah, great.

Pete Kaminski (03:18:33): Builder… build a Palmer Taxonomy, right? Wow. Dimensions to classify… Wait, did you write that?

Dave Kaminski (03:18:39): Did you write that? No. Build a polymer taxonomy?

Pete Kaminski (03:18:41): Well, I, I said… what I said.

Dave Kaminski (03:18:44): I love that, I love the word. I love the word taxonomy. That's… that's something…

Pete Kaminski (03:18:48): tax on me.

Dave Kaminski (03:18:48): make sure you put that into your glossary, and make sure you encourage people to use that. That's, like, it's exactly what I was… when I was talking about TGM, That's, like, this word, it's like, you know, and the doctors use the word x-ray, and you're like, what? You know, I never knew all the black and white stuff was x-rays, thank you, God, you know, so a taxonomy is… that's why I asked about Aristotle, because I know that Aristotle structured its data, but… it actually said, well, it took… from Aristotle, it was focusing on the speech of… no, maybe I used… maybe I didn't use Aristotle, used Socrates, but I wanted the structure of Aristotle, and… You know, in terms of outlines, right? Yeah. Which I made a mistake not saying that, but taxonomy is the perfect word, so, you know, put that in one in bold as well, you know? High value vocabulary words, you know, and put that at top, and then put them alphabetically or whatever, group them. Oh my god, taxonomy, oh my god, that's, like, genius right there.

Pete Kaminski (03:19:48): I love how detailed it got. Palmer versus Spencerian, arm movements, finger movements, Zainer Bloser, Danilian…

Dave Kaminski (03:19:57): Yeah, yeah, this is all off the internet, it's not really quite correct, but, I mean, I'm not smart to know the difference. smart enough to know it's not correct, but I mean, so it's what people say, but a guy like my friend Don's like, you know.

Pete Kaminski (03:20:08): Yep. So, this is… So, this whole thing is just an illustration of…

Dave Kaminski (03:20:14): Of taxonomy.

Pete Kaminski (03:20:15): having a vault, and then having a projects thing.

Dave Kaminski (03:20:19): Right.

Pete Kaminski (03:20:20): that vault, and then building projects and sub-projects and stuff like that. Right.

Dave Kaminski (03:20:24): And reflecting on them.

Pete Kaminski (03:20:26): And then… and then at some point, you can say, okay, I need you to do some work here, you know?

Dave Kaminski (03:20:31): Right, right. Which is what chat finally prompts you. It says, are we ready to work? Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:20:36): Yeah, I… so, the only thing I use ChatGPD for is web searches, actually. And not just a simple web search, but, you know, like, I need you to do some research on handwriting styles or something like that. ChatGPD's web search is better. The… playing the models off against each other is a useful exercise, and you've had a lot of experience doing that, but if you kind of structure the way Claude works, it's easier just to do all your work in Cloud code, you know, the work in the vault, so… There's not.

Dave Kaminski (03:21:09): Yeah.

Pete Kaminski (03:21:10): reason to go out, and… and you can tell it things, like, once it's running on Rails and has structure, then you can tell it things, reflect on, you know, how you did that from a different perspective. So… So another part of the structure, one part of the structure is you set stuff up, you set the rails up before it starts working, then it works, then you have it, say, for every session that you do, you say, let's write, or you write, you write a work log of what you just did.

Dave Kaminski (03:21:42): I tried to have it do, but it wouldn't do it for me.

Pete Kaminski (03:21:44): It… and it does it… it does it really well.

Dave Kaminski (03:21:47): Yeah, I couldn't get it to do it. You know, whatever.

Pete Kaminski (03:21:49): Every time you… every time you make a little step, you do a git commit. You just say commit. I have a picture here from…

Dave Kaminski (03:22:02): Could you just mention that in the, in the… Document 2.

Pete Kaminski (03:22:07): I ask it to…

Dave Kaminski (03:22:08): ask it to whatever, and get commit, or… you know what, I'm just gonna read all your friggin' stuff as much as I can. I'm just… I'll come back to you after I've, you know, gone to college and come back.

Pete Kaminski (03:22:19): So I've got a… I made a picture for this, perfect. This is…

Dave Kaminski (03:22:25): Yeah, I was gonna offer… yeah, visuals are important now.

Pete Kaminski (03:22:28): Yeah. And you can kind of short-circuit a lot of this, and collapse a lot of the steps, but this is what's going on in your head, my head, and… And, you know, and Claude will help you. You can use the small letters, the small words here are the English words you can use. You don't have to say the… the, anyway, you get the idea. Yeah, I like it.

Dave Kaminski (03:22:55): Hey, Pete.

Pete Kaminski (03:22:56): I think that.

Dave Kaminski (03:22:56): I burned down your time, man, and I gotta pee, and I gotta get home. And I'm so much smarter, yeah. I mean, I'm just… my gratitude is, like, through the roof. was praying for a half an hour, you gave me an hour, and then you gave me three and a half hours, and I'm just so much smarter, and I'll really be able to do a lot of work with it, so thank you.

Pete Kaminski (03:23:15): Yeah, I love you.

Dave Kaminski (03:23:16): grateful. So I hope that you got three and a half hours, too, you know, of…

Pete Kaminski (03:23:21): Yeah, I did.

Dave Kaminski (03:23:22): Okay, good, yeah. Fantastic. All right, thank you again. Send me what you can, and I'll dig my way through it.

Pete Kaminski (03:23:28): Sounds good. Alright, we'll see you around.

Dave Kaminski (03:23:29): I'm busy for a couple days, but you'll notice, you know, when I'm available. Cool. And I'll send… give you an update in a week or where. Thanks, cheers. Bye-bye. Take care. Thanks again.

---